Topic: 02 Acura EL vs new Corolla

[stevek]

On this earlier thread I had decided to purchase rather than lease a new car:

http://www.cartalkcanada.com/forum/index.php/topic,46279.40.html

Yesterday I was at a repair shop which calls itself "the Honda Specialist." The owner had a few cars off lease for sale. One was a 2002 Acura 1.7EL, 90,000 km, pretty much loaded except cloth seats and no sunroof. It drove beautifully. He wants $14,500 for it. He also said he'd give me $2000 for my 97 Odyssey (290,000 km), more than I expected. But we are leaning toward keeping the Odyssey as a 3rd vehicle, because I have 2 boys who drive now.

When I run the numbers on this site's loan caculator, it comes to a payment of $491/mo over 4 years at my line of credit rate. I know I could pay it down earlier but that never seems to happen due to other depts and expenses. It seems like a good car, and maybe I could get it down to 14,000, but in 4 years it'll be 8 years old. Whenever I cost out a used car I always end up thinking a new one is a better deal. I was leaning toward a new Corolla - at 3.9% it's $446/mo over 5 years.

With the Acura the total amount financed would be $16,675 on my LOC, vs. $26,789 with Toyota. Yet it isn't that much more per month, and at the end I'd own a 5 year old car rather than 8, as well as having been under warranty.

Are there any points I'm missing? I'd like to think the Acura is a good deal, but does a used car deal only make sense if you can afford to put more money up front? (Which I can't now) I'd appreciate any insights here.

[dorin]

The Acura is still more than $10,000 cheaper than the Toyota so I'd take it.

[Julie]

But the Corolla would still be worth money at the end, right? (whereas the Acura wouldn't be worth much?)

[dorin]

Yes, but it won't be worth $10,000 more.

I guess what Steve needs to do is figure out how long he wants to keep the car for and what his const of ownership will be over that period.

[stevek]

Yes, but it won't be worth $10,000 more.

I guess what Steve needs to do is figure out how long he wants to keep the car for and what his const of ownership will be over that period.

Not sure what you mean by "const" of ownership? A typo?

At the end of a 4 year lease the end value of the Corolla would be about $9000, and I assume it would sell for more than that based on present examples of 4 year old Corollas. So I also assume it would be worth something substantial after 5 years, but not $10,000 as you say.

I probably would keep a car a long time. I used to trade every 3-4 years when I bought domestics in the 80s and early 90s, but with my first Japanese car, the Odyssey, I have kept it a long time. I think I'll do the same with my Vibe, and a Corolla if I get one.

So, given that, does the Corolla make more sense than the Acura?

[stevek]

BTW, for those who know Acuras - is the car I described (cloth seats, no sunroof but otherwise loaded) much better/different from a similarly equipped Civic of the same year?

[84im]

A tough call, as both vehicles are very reliable. 
Here's my two cents worth; if you only plan on keeping the car 3 or 4 years go with the Acura, as it has already gone through its serious depreciation years.  If you plan to keep the vehicle a long time (7 to 10 years) then I would go with the Corolla.  An added plus with the Corolla is the new car warranty.

[Craig]

Are there any points I'm missing? I'd like to think the Acura is a good deal, but does a used car deal only make sense if you can afford to put more money up front? (Which I can't now) I'd appreciate any insights here.

Always seemed that way to me.  Ironic, isn't it?  The cheaper car is a better deal if you have more money to spend.

It's not like you're choosing between a bad car and a good car.  Both are known as very reliable.  But I'd go for the new Corolla as well.  Yes, the EL will have a couple more toys, but the Corolla is worry-free transportation for even longer.  The 90K EL will have wear-and-tear costs coming up much sooner than a new Corolla.

[vaff3]

My .02:

The difference between Acura and Civic:  different suspension; 127 hp engine vs 115hp; more features standard to justify the luxury nameplate

Difference between EL and Corolla: Acura has sportier,stiffer ride, more freely revving engine (VTEC), beautiful manual transmission;  my 1.6 is a little loud inside but they may have improved that in the 1.7; sits lower, firmer seats; better looking (IMO)
no recalls; problems to watch for are squeaky struts in the back(bushings), weak power window motor, some oil use if driven in VTEC (4000+ RPM) a lot, poor cup holder placement; stock Michelin MVX tires are only for summer use in all reality; need winter tires

Corolla: sit higher, quieter, less flashy, new car warranty, more dealers

As an owner of a 2000 1.6 EL; I have been really happy with the car and the treatment from my service dealership; IMO Acura is geared toward the driver and the Corolla more toward the passenger in terms of setup.

I'm surprised the EL has no sunroof; I thought it was standard equipment on all models.

Best of luck with your decision.  You are choosing between the two best small sedan vehicles and car companies going, so you'll be a winner either way.

[stevek]

Vaff3, you have captured my feeling exactly about how the Acura felt to drive. It felt like a sports car to me, lots of pickup, good handling. It is definitely the more exciting of the 2 to drive, but I guess I'm leaning toward the Corolla for the financial and warranty reasons that I and others have said here. I kind of wish I could choose the more exciting of the 2, but the Corolla is making more sense to me. 

[Julie]

IMO Acura is geared toward the driver and the Corolla more toward the passenger in terms of setup.

I suspect comfort may be a key factor depending on your anticipated usaged. We like to take long-ish trips and take our Camry for that (for the passenger comfort). I feel the suspension of the Corolla has practically the same softness.

[dr_spock]

If I have to finance, I would go for the new car with warranty. 

[articsteve]

BTW, for those who know Acuras - is the car I described (cloth seats, no sunroof but otherwise loaded) much better/different from a similarly equipped Civic of the same year?

You are describing an EL "Touring".  Yes, substainial superior to Civics of same year.  No sunroof in 2002 Tourings.

[articsteve]

On this earlier thread I had decided to purchase rather than lease a new car:

http://www.cartalkcanada.com/forum/index.php/topic,46279.40.html

Yesterday I was at a repair shop which calls itself "the Honda Specialist." The owner had a few cars off lease for sale. One was a 2002 Acura 1.7EL, 90,000 km, pretty much loaded except cloth seats and no sunroof. It drove beautifully. He wants $14,500 for it. He also said he'd give me $2000 for my 97 Odyssey (290,000 km), more than I expected. But we are leaning toward keeping the Odyssey as a 3rd vehicle, because I have 2 boys who drive now.

When I run the numbers on this site's loan caculator, it comes to a payment of $491/mo over 4 years at my line of credit rate. I know I could pay it down earlier but that never seems to happen due to other depts and expenses. It seems like a good car, and maybe I could get it down to 14,000, but in 4 years it'll be 8 years old. Whenever I cost out a used car I always end up thinking a new one is a better deal. I was leaning toward a new Corolla - at 3.9% it's $446/mo over 5 years.

With the Acura the total amount financed would be $16,675 on my LOC, vs. $26,789 with Toyota. Yet it isn't that much more per month, and at the end I'd own a 5 year old car rather than 8, as well as having been under warranty.

Are there any points I'm missing? I'd like to think the Acura is a good deal, but does a used car deal only make sense if you can afford to put more money up front? (Which I can't now) I'd appreciate any insights here.

Are there any points I'm missing?

But we are leaning toward keeping the Odyssey as a 3rd vehicle, because I have 2 boys who drive now

You best check with your insurance company about a third vehicle on the policy with 2 teenage boys.  Generally having a third vehicle will make the boys primary drivers.  Even with driver's school certificate look at $300 per month of each son. 

Used cars that don't require collision coverage are best when you got kids under your insurance policy.  When you insure your kids the insurance company rates them on the most expensive vehicle.

[airbalancer]

Have agree with AS, 3 cars 4 drivers, one of the kids will be listed prime driver on the third car
Taking a cab would be cheaper

[stevek]

Are there any points I'm missing?

But we are leaning toward keeping the Odyssey as a 3rd vehicle, because I have 2 boys who drive now

You best check with your insurance company about a third vehicle on the policy with 2 teenage boys.  Generally having a third vehicle will make the boys primary drivers.  Even with driver's school certificate look at $300 per month of each son. 

Used cars that don't require collision coverage are best when you got kids under your insurance policy.  When you insure your kids the insurance company rates them on the most expensive vehicle.

We also have a daughter who's 21 in university. I've been told it'd be cheaper to list her as the driver on a 3rd vehicle rather than the boys. But I haven't checked with my insurance company yet.

[stevek]

A new variable has come up. We have the offer of a loan from a family member to be at little or no interest. In the neighborhood of $15k.

So this brings the Acura into a better light. Or would a newer Corolla or Civic be better? Say an 05 or 04, saving all the up front depreciation and costs of a brand new car, but still with some warranty left, and newer than the 02 Acura discussed already.

Any tips on shopping and negotiating for used cars would be appreciated.

[CSH]

It is obvious you are paying higher cost because the % cost of borrowing on the used car is more
for the same amount per month you are getting a higher valued car, which will cost less to maintain and you will get a better resale when you sell it aftet 5 years so go for the Corolla

If you are making cash down then things are different, then you should go for the Acura or any other car..You should use this if you want to use the car for a long time else you should buy a new car...
With 15K if you want to go new, i would go for a new Accord...with the present Honda interest rates on the two cars the difference in monthly payment for them would be around 30$pm (CIVIC EX and Accord DX-G) and you will have lower insurance for the accord which will almost cancel out the difference in the montly payment and you will get much more resale value when you sell the accord than the civic...

[Julie]

A new variable has come up. We have the offer of a loan from a family member to be at little or no interest. In the neighborhood of $15k.

So this brings the Acura into a better light. Or would a newer Corolla or Civic be better? Say an 05 or 04, saving all the up front depreciation and costs of a brand new car, but still with some warranty left, and newer than the 02 Acura discussed already.

Any tips on shopping and negotiating for used cars would be appreciated.

I think, with that new variable, you can really go for the car your heart wants more. An older Civic (pre-06) would be less impressive than the same generation Acura (2002), but the new Civic is pretty improved. A 05 or 04 Corolla would be no different than an 06 one.

[stevek]

We decided to get the Acura. The dealer (really he is a repair shop owner and sells a few used cars on the side) is a Lubrico warranty dealer and offered us their 2 year/24km warranty if we want. Is anyone familiar with their warranties, and are they worth getting?

*edit* I did a search for Lubrico here, and it seems that it and other after market warranties are not recommended by the experts here. There is still 11,000 km left on the factory warranty on this 1.7EL. I wonder if I could still get an extended warranty from Acura, and would that be worthwhile?

Which reminds me, I got a letter recently from my GM dealer saying it's been almost a year since buying my 05 Vibe, and offering $350 off their extended GM Protection Plan. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated too.