Author Topic: I Think I Got A Problem Here, Guys...  (Read 4402 times)

Offline pg2676

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I Think I Got A Problem Here, Guys...
« on: August 23, 2003, 01:10:41 pm »
 Ok, I just bought my '03 Liberty RME 2 weeks ago.  I just rolled 1800km on it and I have a problem that has been plaguing it since the start. The engine, new 3.7L V6, has a very loud valvetrain, to the point where it sounds like a VW Diesel.  I thought this would go away after a couple thousand km through break-in, instead it hasn't. When the vehicle warms up, if you listen under the Jeep on the driver side, it actually sounds like knocking. I had it into the local dealership to have them pinpoint the problem. After a thorough listen to with the stereoscopes, they have acknowledged their is something wrong, but in the meantime, drive until it's first oil change. If it gets better, then great, if it stays the same or gets worse, bring it in again.  
   This is the part that concerns me. Because of the knocking sound coming from apparently the bottom end, they went as far as suggesting possibly pulling the motor and tearing it down to find the problem! The moment he suggested this, I told him quote "If that has to happen, you can keep the vehicle, because it will never be the same again!"
   My question is... What kind of recourse do I have in this situation??? I have updated the salesman that I bought from on the situation, as I did not buy locally, and have the details on paper of the recent inspection work.  The service manager has acknowledged there is something wrong, so what can I do???

17el

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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2003, 08:30:59 pm »
 Bring it back...ask for a new one.  If the acknowledge there is a problem and don't fix it, will that not just further the problem?  Or are they hoping it goes away.  I'd just throw the keys back and ask for another one.

Offline inco

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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2003, 10:36:48 am »
 While 17's idea would be the best result it probably isn't going to happen.

The important point is that they have acknowledged there is a problem and that's good because it means they will eventually come good for it.

Now it's a matter of waiting it out and see what develops- but in doing so I would be pushing them and DC for another motor - not a rebuilt one.  

They will eventually come around and hopefully do the right thing. Sorry that this happened though because it's another nail in that proverbial coffin.

Offline pg2676

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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2003, 02:20:39 pm »
 Ok, I will be going to them next week to confront them for a new vehicle or motor.  I will tell them that if they are going to install a new motor, I want to see the actual purchase order for the new motor to DM, I want the numbers off the new motor, and anything else to prove that it is not a rebuilt.  What else can you suggest??

17el

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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2003, 11:40:56 pm »
 I agree with Inco that it's a long shot that they will give you a new car....but 180KM and the car already seems to be having issues indicate to me that the car came out of the factory with a serious flaw.  If you can't get the new car, a new engine is the least they can do.  Do you think that you can approach this issue from the "the car you sold me is a lemon?" angle?  I know it's only one issue you've encountered so yet another long shot.  But I would keep that in mind if other problems start to rear it's ugly head.  Best of luck in resolving this issue.

Offline bgclarke

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« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2003, 12:29:08 am »
 I had a similar thing happen to me, but with a GM product.

They ended up putting a complete new engine in (the pistons had damaged the cylinder walls).

If they want to tear down the old engine, let them...AFTER they put a new one in your vehicle.

Offline eax

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« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2003, 12:40:47 pm »
 Ok, want to get this taken care of quickly?  Here's the steps.  But first off, have you driven another Liberty recently, ask the dealership to start one for you, and go for a ride and see if you hear the same thing.  I recall the engine being rather raspy, and exibiting sounds much like you mentioned when I drove one.  They are all a little noisy IMO, but perhaps yours is more so.  

The most important point is to create a paper trail.

1. Write a letter detailing what the problem is, exactly when it occurs, the dates you visited the dealership, the dates/time the sounds occur and under what conditions (in the rain/morning).  Do not threaten the company, ask for a solution.  Threating will get you absolutely nowhere. Address it to the dealership. Provide this to the service manager at the dealership.
2.  Take the same letter, readdress to to DC customer service, call them, ask the rep. to get it by fax and ask the rep. to have the District Parts and Service Manager contact the dealership, since the dealership has acknowledged there is a problem but doesn't know what to do, the District Parts and Service Manager will likely have to come down and look at the car.
3.  Ask the DC customer service rep. to keep you updated on the progress.  Get that rep's name, and continue to call back the same rep.  Building a relationship/rapport with the same rep. will go a lot futher than talking to a bunch of different people.  
4.  Forget your salesperson, deal with Service Manager, and DC customer service reps.
As a side note about warranty.
DC does not have to give you a new engine.  If they fix the current problem and the most cost effective way of doing so is a rebuild or part replacement, that's what they will do.  Nothing you can do about it.   If the problem persists, then they may replace the engine.  Most likely though internal engine problems on a brand new car will warrant a replacement.  Cost/customer satisfaction do count.    That's why you have a warranty.  It doesn't matter if you have 2km or 20000km.  If there's a problem, the warranty's there for you.  But if the problem still persists and they can't fix it.  You have recourse.  You can take them to CAMVAP and being preceedings to get your car bought back.  The most important thing in one of these hearings is a proper paper trail.  If you can pick up the sound on a video camera, then do that now too and store it away. Seriously, it may sound like a lot, but if you really want something solved you should do everything you can, instead of waiting for DC because you will be waiting.  Secondly, dont' get upset, don't scream and yell, be civil, be helpful and be calm.  What type of person do you think Customer Service is more willing to help?  If you bit*h and scream, do you think the rep. or the DPSM will really feel like calling you back?   I wouldn't.  If your the nice person with a legitimate problem who's being civil and rational, you'll likely be at the top of the to do list.  Otherwise, I'm sure the pile's pretty big, and somebody's got to be at the bottom.  Be patient, give it time, but if in a month your still nowhere I'd perhaps start giving some heat to the rep., gently.  That's my $0.02, up to you to spend it. But I advised a friend to do the same thing with Volvo, regarding a transmission problem, and within 2 weeks, there was a new tranny in the car.  They first tried a fix, didn't work, a new transmission followed quickly and it didn't even have to go futher than the service manager.  The service manager just provided the documentation to Volvo, documentation was sufficent, fix followed quickly.

Offline pg2676

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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2003, 11:30:21 pm »
 Update -- I have 5700km on it already. The problem has not gone away. They had it in last Thursday for an entire day and still could not find the problem. I have booked it in for the 15th and DC Area Warranty Rep. has advised the dealership to check the following...
- Check the timing chain and tensioner for proper operation.
- Check the oil pressure and oil pump for proper operation.

If neither of these two checks reveal anything, they have been advised to pull the heads and see what they can see. They also suspect it could be a possible detonation problem with one cylinder, a problem they have had on the 4.7L V8.
Opinions???

Offline mrthompson

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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2003, 10:50:08 am »
I know this is my most common response but...

Try posting details of your situation or a link to this thread on http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums .

There is a forum specifically for the Liberty.

HTH,
Mr. T

Offline pg2676

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« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2003, 12:54:07 am »
 Update...
We have chosen not to tear into the engine, breaking all the factory seals and causing potential problems down the road. I'm just going to keep driving it until one of two things happens... It dies before the warranty is up, of which it's covered until 115000km, or if there is nothing wrong, then it should last long past the warranty period.
The second this thing even hiccups, it will be on their doorstep!

On a sadder note, I had to part ways with my beloved 1995 Toyota Corolla DX this past weekend. After 227,200 completely trouble-free km, it was time to say goodbye. On an even sadder note, the kid who bought it rides the clutch like Zorro on a pony! (Yes, I cried!)

Offline safristi

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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2003, 10:23:45 am »
Zorro on a pony...Zat ees foony  :)
should put this ASS -SIGN on the old mule...
asssign
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline safristi

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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2003, 11:03:28 am »
 Oh and on the car problems remember to "JEEP YOUR
PECKER UP !!"

Offline ovr50

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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2003, 06:23:50 pm »
 Pg2676 - haven't heard from you in a while regarding your new '03 Liberty RME. You were having some engine problems - ie. noisy valves. Any update? Get her fixed? What happened? I would interested to know about this item; plus, in general, are you happy with the Liberty and would you buy it if could do over? The one great thing the Jeep has over many other smaller SUVs is it's off-road ability. Comments?
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Offline pg2676

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« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2003, 11:05:55 pm »
 The noise has subsided to the point where it is not worrysome. I think it just needed a little extra break in time. The thing is that if something is going to go wrong, it will most likely happen before the 115K km warranty has expired. I just got the 15K oil change (at 17500km) and will switch it out to Mobil 1 the next time around.
As for my satisfaction with the vehicle, If I had to do it over again, and could afford it, I probably would not buy the Jeep again. As you already know, it was not at the top of my list of choices. Here are my gripes...
- The rear seats do not fold completely flat
- Cargo room is not as plentiful as I expected
- Avoid the 17" wheel and tire package, as this is a pain in the ass when it comes to finding decent A/T or winter tires
- Short wheelbase makes winter driving somewhat dicey in 2wd mode
- Still not crazy about the gate mounted spare
- Crappy fuel mileage, even for a small SUV (yes, yes I know!)
- Heavy weight makes even moderate highway uphill grades a workout for the transmission
- Needs a dome light above the rear seat

Here is what I like...

- Can't beat the Command Trac II 4wd system. Would be even better with decent tires
- Looks good overall, especially the RME trim
- Decent power, even with the heavy weight
- 4 wheel discs are fairly good, even without ABS
- Fairly comfortable on long hauls, although highway tires may be a factor in this
- Almost 9" of ground clearance and high seats

My next choice would probably be what I originally wanted, a Nissan Xterra, but I will probably have this for some time, so who knows what will be out by then.

Offline ovr50

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« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2003, 12:04:18 am »
 Thanks for the update - glad to hear your engine noise problem has abated. I believe that engine does tend to be a bit noisier than usual. I had a '90 Cherokee and a '93 Grand Cherokee so the pro/cons you listed above are about what I would expect. The one recurring gripe about the 3.7L Liberty engine is the poor fuel economy (but it is a heavy vehicle). I like it for its offroad ability and great looks (IMO). I think you may have found the Xterra to be a choppy ride and possibly underpowered.

Offline pg2676

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« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2003, 12:21:35 am »
 Sorry, that should be the Select-Trac II system, not the Command Trac.
There has been mention at the dealership about a possible misfire or detonation problem with both the 3.7 and the 4.7 number 3 cylinder. So far all they are doing is replacing spark plugs to remedy the problem. Any thoughts??

Offline mrthompson

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« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2003, 10:11:42 am »
 Pg2676...Have you had a chance to relay your experiences at the JeepsUnlimited forum?  There's a good group of Canuck Liberty owners who you could converse with regarding your engine problems.  I've learned alot about my Cherokee, and Jeeps in general, from visiting the JeepsUnlimited forum.

JU members gtojack and TRAILN are helpful  Liberty owners who reside in Ontario.  You may want to send them a private message through the JU forum.

Hope this helps.