Author Topic: Sticking/seized caliper slide pins (Read 4276 times)

CaldwellB · « **on:** April 07, 2006, 11:26:37 am »

Hey guys,

I took my '03 Highlander in to the dealer yesterday for a maintenance service. It had a rear "sticking" caliper slide pin which caused the brake pad to wear down and had a damaged rotor as a result. They replaced the rear rotors and pads, a $500 job. With 62k km, it wasn't covered under warranty, and wasn't covered under the extended Toyota ECP warranty.

At 32k km, I had a similar problem with the front slide pins. The terminology they used then was "seized" slide pins, and this was covered under warranty. Is there a difference between a seized and a sticking caliper slide pin? And if so, enough to not be covered under warranty?

The advisor was going to double-check if the ECP extended warranty would cover a "sticking" slide pin, and get back to me, but wasn't optimistic that it would be as it's more of a maintenance thing.

Would you consider this be something that should get covered under extended warranty, or the regular warranty which was only 2k over the 60k?

barrie1 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 07, 2006, 01:50:33 pm »

CaldwellB Welcome to the Forum. They are very similar if almost identical problems that should probably not have happened. I would also push for the warranty on these as the 2000 klm over part is so small it seems silly to charge you for. That does seem a little premature for this type of problem to happen as generally the slider pins stay lubed longer then this. Definitely stay on top of the service advisor as this problem probably started while you were under warranty.

CaldwellB · « **Reply #2 on:** April 07, 2006, 03:19:11 pm »

Many thanks for the insight barrie1. Hopefully I can get it covered under the 60k warranty.

citydude · « **Reply #3 on:** April 07, 2006, 06:14:49 pm »

Could you not question why these parts were not serviced (or problem not found earlier) during your scheduled maintenance?

For Honda cars (for example), every second scheduled maintenance included a "inspect front and rear brakes". I'd be really upset if I were you, since they should have been inspecting my brakes (and I am paying a premium over regular oil change for the service). How could they miss that? What exactly do they do during these inspections? At least they could see premature pad/rotor wear, right?

>> wasn't covered under the extended Toyota ECP warrantywasn't covered under the extended Toyota ECP warranty

That's exactly why people don't like these extended warranty plan. Never really know what is covered what is not until you need it. And it's always to the dealers advantage.

Citydude

articsteve · « **Reply #4 on:** April 07, 2006, 07:16:23 pm »

I agree. I think you got slammed by the dealer.

99% of the cars on the road have caliper sliders that are a bit sticky but that doesn't lead to ruined pads and rotors. The slider bolt is actually fixed. It doesn't move. The caliper moves to and fr on the bolts. Pins are different; usually seen on rear calipers that are "fixed" in contrast to "floating". However, ppl call slider "bolts", "pins" all the time.

Do you know if these rear calipers have pins or slider bolts? Neither really "seize". That is dealer terminology to scare you into thinking something was terribly wrong.

I've included 2 pics. One is of a rear Highland caliper for 03 2WD V6. It is fuzzy but it shows the caliper "slider" bolts. The other pic is of a typical slider bolt.

maritime_storm · « **Reply #5 on:** April 09, 2006, 08:59:47 am »

Guys seized slider pins on an SUV or Truck at a low mileage isn't unheard if the vehicle gets in the mud once and a while.

CaldwellB · « **Reply #6 on:** April 09, 2006, 11:10:40 am »

Yeah I don't drive in mud at all. When I talk to the advisor early this week, I will plead with him that this should be covered under the normal warranty as the problem no doubt started before 60k as I only have 62k right now.

barrie1 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 09, 2006, 02:06:21 pm »

I think that is the way to go as well. Its obvious the problem was there then.

articsteve · « **Reply #8 on:** April 09, 2006, 02:32:08 pm »

Indeed, it takes quite a bit of time for those pins to build up enough crap to stick enough to wreck the pads and rotors on BOTH wheels.

Therefore, obviously not done during the last service so challenge them with that hypothesis.

You needed to inspect the old pads as that would tell you everything. IMO, they looked at your mileage, looked at you and the decided to slam you. Rotors were probably good to go and have been re-surfaced and are going to exchange hands under the table later on.

If you are the type to get real ugly with the service manager, as the service adviser has no say, then they might reduce the charge because the profit is big on brakes. If you could get $200 off then that would be OK.

CaldwellB · « **Reply #9 on:** April 11, 2006, 09:34:46 am »

So the service advisor got back to me last night. He said the extended warranty doesn't cover the sticking caliper slide pin which I figured would be the case. I now regret getting the extended warranty as they seem to scrutinize every little claim.

I mentioned the same thing happened at 32k and it was covered under normal warranty. There was a long pause on the line when he found it in the history and then he put me on hold for a good 5 minutes to talk to his manager. He came back and said that it was odd that seized caliper pins were covered under warranty, that this was a maintenance thing that they don't put through warranty. And he was very adamant that 62k was over the 60k warranty limiit, even though the damage had been done no doubt before 60k.

I then spoke to the service manager, who I was more diplomatic with, as I realized being hostile with the advisor was not helping my cause. He showed a faint hint of sympathy on my part, but basically reiterated what the advisor said. He said he would call Toyota Canada if I wanted him too, but that they would surely decline a claim as it was beyond 60k.

Very frustrating, I think I got ripped off. I plan to write a letter now to Toyota Canada. I bought both my vehicles at this dealership and have done all the maintenance services and oil changes there as well. I would think there would be some goodwill on their part for being so close to the warranty limit and not honouring it.

articsteve · « **Reply #10 on:** April 11, 2006, 01:03:53 pm »

Yes you got ripped off. In the business it's called being "SLAMMED". Do you think the dealership makes money selling new cars? Water under the bridge. The only customers who get a reversal are the ppl who go in guns blazing, tell the service manager he's a bold face liar and then take the issue to the dealership GM or owner. Particularly in your case since you bought two cars and do all your servicing, I think they would have met you half way because 50% of that brake job is profit. So they lose nothing. Being diplomatic with dealer ppl gets you nowhere. The problem is most ppl just aren't suited to blistering confrontations where it's old hat to dealer principals.

The letter to Toyota will get you zip. Forget about it. Could have been worse.

curls · « **Reply #11 on:** April 11, 2006, 01:11:19 pm »

I don't understand why Toyota, unlike Honda, is so opposed to any kind of goodwill warranty (especially a measly 2K km over the warranty period -- I can rack that up in a 2 week period like nothin'!). This is about the 4th or 5th time a fairly expensive job has come up, that I've heard about, that Toyota has just blew off as being "out of warranty". Honda, on the other hand, has been more than accomodating to myself as well as others I know.

Write the letter. Address is to the VP of Customer Relations or something along those lines. Await response. If you're lucky (I'd say 25% chance of something being done about this situation), you'll get SOME money back from them).

Good luck.

articsteve · « **Reply #12 on:** April 11, 2006, 06:09:02 pm »

This is strictly a dealer/customer issue. From what I read the distributor had nothing to do with it. It is the dealer that should have meet the customer half way.

Loudpedal · « **Reply #13 on:** April 13, 2006, 08:00:58 am »

Quote from: curls on April 11, 2006, 01:11:19 pm

Write the letter. Address is to the VP of Customer Relations or something along those lines. Await response. If you're lucky (I'd say 25% chance of something being done about this situation), you'll get SOME money back from them).

Good luck.

If you do write the letter, cc a bunch of interested folks, such as BBB, dealer body folks as well as head office folks. Most businesses hate looking like incompetents in front of an audience.

CaldwellB · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2006, 11:42:05 am »

I got a return call from the service manager last night. He had no luck getting warranty coverage for the brake job from Toyota Canada for being over warranty period by 2k. They offered as a goodwill gesture to pay the labour costs - $170 plus taxes (I assume) of the $500 job.

I still think they dropped the ball on this one as the previous maintenance appt. should have revealed that the caliper was sticking. What concerns me is that this has happened twice now within the first 60k. My corolla has never had this problem. It has steel wheels with covers. Could it be that wheels with big gaps that expose the calipers are more prone to getting salt and dirt build-up and thus have the tendency to get sticking calipers? Would it help to give the calipers a good spray with a pressure washer in the winter from time to time?

barrie1 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2006, 01:27:51 pm »

Yes it may help by doing that as there will be a lot less dirt or grime buildup in there to cause problems. Sorry to hear about the turndown but at least even the $170. reduction is better then nothing.

articsteve · « **Reply #16 on:** April 19, 2006, 07:48:47 am »

Quote from: CaldwellB on April 18, 2006, 11:42:05 am

I got a return call from the service manager last night. He had no luck getting warranty coverage for the brake job from Toyota Canada for being over warranty period by 2k. They offered as a goodwill gesture to pay the labour costs - $170 plus taxes (I assume) of the $500 job.

I still think they dropped the ball on this one as the previous maintenance appt. should have revealed that the caliper was sticking. What concerns me is that this has happened twice now within the first 60k. My corolla has never had this problem. It has steel wheels with covers. Could it be that wheels with big gaps that expose the calipers are more prone to getting salt and dirt build-up and thus have the tendency to get sticking calipers? Would it help to give the calipers a good spray with a pressure washer in the winter from time to time?

What concerns me is that this has happened twice now within the first 60k

You still keep assuming that everything was as bad as they said it was. If your pads and rotors ON BOTH SIDES

were so bad as to need replacing because the calipers were jamming and you did not notice it prior I would be very suspect. That is why I think they came and met you half way. You never did see the old parts did you?

CaldwellB · « **Reply #17 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:30:23 am »

Only one side had the sticking caliper. I was told that BOTH sides need pads and rotors replaced in tandem. Is this true?

And yeah they gave me back the pads and rotors, one of the rotors looked pretty bad. I'll take a closer look at the pads tonight, one of them should be worn down pretty good if what they said is true.

SodiumSulfate · « **Reply #18 on:** April 19, 2006, 09:50:51 am »

I don't know if this will help, or even if my comment is related to your experience, but...

I have a 2002 Highlander and at around 60-65K kms, the brakes were feeling spongy. I think I had the original breakpads replaced at around 32K kms, and the dealership had noticed some irregular wear. At the next major service interval, I took it to my Toyota dealership where I bought the car, and had them inspect the brakes. They said that I'd have to replace all 4 rotors and pads. They ballparked the cost at approximately $800ish, but that was if they only replaced 2 rotors and machines the other 2.

My uncles a mechanic and I asked for his opinion, and we suggested that I replace all for rotors as well as the pads, and that the wear did look uneven in the rear wheels. The rotors had a significant amount of rust on them, and I felt it better to be safe than sorry. I had my break work done by him and myself, and for about $500 and change, I had replaced all 4 rotors with brand new ones as well as all the break pads. Of the original rotors, the one which showed the most wear had a groove on the back of it (seemed to me like a manufacturing flaw).

All in all, it cost me about $500, and I got all new rotors and breakpads and the knowledge that I can do it myself

articsteve · « **Reply #19 on:** April 19, 2006, 10:49:48 am »

Quote from: CaldwellB on April 19, 2006, 09:30:23 am

Only one side had the sticking caliper. I was told that BOTH sides need pads and rotors replaced in tandem. Is this true?

And yeah they gave me back the pads and rotors, one of the rotors looked pretty bad. I'll take a closer look at the pads tonight, one of them should be worn down pretty good if what they said is true.

Is this true?

No, not for the rotors. The pads come in sets so you have paid for them anyways, but wasn't everything replaced at or about 30K km under warranty?

And yeah they gave me back the pads and rotors, one of the rotors looked pretty bad.

You never mentioned that before. When did they give them back to you? The day of the original repair or days later after all the yelling.

How do you know that those used parts came off your vehicle. That dealer will have a whole mountain of used rotors and pads to pick through.

I think at this stage of the game it is next to impossible to determine what really occurred. I'd find a good independent shop for your future brake needs.