Topic: Narrow or Wide Tires for Snow/Ice/Mud?

[Trainman]

I was going to put this in the Mythbuster topic but thought it might be better here.

With all things being equal (vehicle, tread design and depth, snow conditions) will a narrower tire perform better than a wider one?   

My truck currently has LT 245 75 R16's and is used off-road.  I will need new tires in the fall and am considering going to a LT 225 80 R16 (if they will fit the rims).  I get a narrow tire without losing any height (ie ground clearance).  Or is this “narrow tire better in snow” idea a myth that needs busting?

Note that on the 96-04 Pathfinders there is little room to go bigger than what I have now due to the front suspension design.  The current tires just miss rubbing the spring seat.

Thanks for any input.  Based on what I have seen on other forums, it might be lively 

[auto_enthusiast]

Narrow tires are best for snow.  The wider the tire, the more it "floats" on top of the snow - you want a tire that cuts through the snow to the pavement.

For mud you want big lugs - but supposedly wide or thin depends on the type of mud.

http://www.offroaders.com/info/tech-corner/reading/mud.htm

For ice, you need studs 

[capriracer]

The problem is with the "all things being equal".  These things are NEVER equal, so the responses you'll get (on both sides of the issue) are going to reflect this.

2 thoughts:

There can be so much difference between tires that the difference in width (in your case 20 mm) won't be significant.

A little bit of contact with the pavement is SOOOO much better than a lot of contact with snow.

But in the case where the tire NEVER sees anything but snow, then a wide tire would be better.  But those cases are fairly rare and given the differences between tires, the extra width is hardly going to matter.

(OK, that was 3 thoughts!)

[mrthompson]

For ice, slush and moderately deep snow (just to the underside of the chassis) I feel narrow tires are better.  The smaller contact area allows the tire to 'cut' through the crap to get down to the traction underneath. 

Once the snow is deeper than the underside of the chassis, the tires will be less able to cut through the snow to get traction.  The snow under the chassis will 'unweight' the tires. With wider tires the vehicle has a better chance of 'floating' on the snow.

Unless you routinely encounter very deep snow, I would go with the narrow tire.    (Plus narrow tires look cool, IMHO.)

What tires are you planning on purchasing, Trainman?

[Snowman]

Based on my experience with off-roading narrow tires are far superior in poor tractions conditions for snow and mud. You have a smaller contact patch with applies more weight in a smaller area and more importantly “pushing” less snow or mud with the tires.

Check my link for personal experience;
Iknowafuckofalotmorethanarticsteve.com 

[Trainman]

Thanks for all the input.

Iknowafuckofalotmorethanarticsteve.com   Dead link?    

What tires are you planning on purchasing, Trainman?

Bridgestone Dueler A/T Revo's are very popular in the Pathfinder community, at least those of use who have to drive in snow.  But getting a narrow tire may be a problem.

Will also look at the Dueler A/T D693.

I am sure Morty will be along to offer suggestions as well.  Looking for a 6-8 ply (10 ply is over-kill for my use).  If I can get an 85 series tire that would be even better but selection seems to be rather limited and I am not sure if they would fit on the stock rims (stock tires are P245 70 R16, no size is stamped on the rim).  I do not want to lose any ground clearance whatever I do.  The truck is used in the bush and the tires have to hold up (the current Hankook RF04’s have not).

On the Pathfinder forum, opinion is split 50-50 on wide vs narrow.  Many people think that floating on snow is good.  I was always told by much more experienced drivers that narrow was best.


Here is the limiting factor for size:

[mrthompson]

I've read lots of good comments on the REVOs.  BFG All-Terrains are a perennial favourite.  You might be able to find a flotation size that is usable, i.e. 30x8.5R16 (not sure if this exists)?

[safristi]

..Dead LINKS.....hey PULL MY...........".finger"

   http://www.penisland.net/

[ktm525]

As stated once the snow gets really deep you need floatation tires aired down to about 8 psi to help "float" on the snow. Of course you will need to air them back up so you will also need an air compressor. I suggest air-lockers for the front and rear diffs. This system locks all the wheels for real 4WD  with the added bonus of an air compressor to inflate tires. Chains help too.


Maybe just buy a Bombardier Bombi? and leave the truck at the trailhead?

[Snowman]

   As stated once the snow gets really deep you need floatation tires aired down to about 8 psi to help "float" on the snow. 
There is no tire on the planet that will “float” a 4000 lb SUV or pick-up truck. It is imposable.

[safristi]

Ya have ta give me Kudos & Points fer tryin' tho'....... ..RESCUE ME..rescue Me I'm a bee_leefer....

[UmroAyyar]

  As stated once the snow gets really deep you need floatation tires aired down to about 8 psi to help "float" on the snow. 
There is no tire on the planet that will “float” a 4000 lb SUV or pick-up truck. It is imposable.

They do it in Iceland, take those trucks to Greenland, I've seen on Discovery, I'll try to find some pics. I dunno about the pressure, but its for very extreme ice/snow environment.

[UmroAyyar]

Check this out, not exactly what I wanted.
http://www.natureexplorer.is/page.asp?id=582

"The jeeps are modified for difficult conditions, to cross fast flowing glacial rivers, driving on the rough mountain tracks, in deep snow and cruising glaciers. The most noticiable modification is of course the big tires. These big tires have several advantages; they elevate the vehicle from the ground so when crossing rivers, most of the water flows under the body of the car. They also help climbing steep river banks and other obstacles. Another important benefit of large tires is that when deflated they provide great flotation on snow. A 4x4 Super Jeep with 2psi air pressure in the tires actually weighs less per squere inch than a man walking."

This of course is not the course of action suggested for Trainman and his Pathfinder. 

[mrthompson]

When tires are deflated greatly to improve traction/flotation, beadlock wheels are required.  Beadlocks prevent the tire from being unseated.

[ktm525]

  As stated once the snow gets really deep you need floatation tires aired down to about 8 psi to help "float" on the snow. 
There is no tire on the planet that will “float” a 4000 lb SUV or pick-up truck. It is imposable.

It won't "foat" but will increase the contact area of the tire. This trick is commonly used in deep sand also.

[vz64]

Narrow tires do work better in snow/ice/mud. Look at those WRC tires - a usual choice is 205/65-15, but some snow tires are as narrow as 135/90-16!



I am using 245/40/17 for summer, but I will get 205/50/17 tires next winter.

[AVToller]

Look at the tires on off-road bikes as compared to small road bikes. Narrow tires for sure.

[ktm525]

Look at the tires on off-road bikes as compared to small road bikes. Narrow tires for sure.

Are you refering to motorcycles? My dirtbikes hook the best with the widest rubber I can get. 140/80-18.

[Snowman]

It won't "foat" but will increase the contact area of the tire. This trick is commonly used in deep sand also.

We are talking mud, ice and snow so narrow tires are the choice. It is common knowledge that sand tires are larger and very low pressure.

[ktm525]

We are talking mud, ice and snow so narrow tires are the choice. It is common knowledge that sand tires are larger and very low pressure.

Deep snow (and mud)  are polar opposite than ice. Really depends on the depth of snow. At the ski area I used to patrol at I learned this the hard way. After the Groomer had left some nice tilled snow carpet a few of us decided to try a little experiment.t. My Toyota 4*4 truck with 31*10.5 LT's quickly sank to the axles and was stuck. Meanwhile the other truck was running some sort of Ag tire but I would estimate a 31*14.5". That truck (same model as mine, ski hill truck))drove around with no issues.


Bottomless sand and snow needs W - I - D - T - H.