Topic: Rustproofing question

[mscooper]

I am new to this forum, however I struck out with a search on rustproofing so I hope to find some help here.  Just bought a 2005 Hyundai Elantra and was looking to get it rustproofed.  However, I am wondering where to do it.  Typical places like Krown Rust have the normal oil base reapplied every year and that is pretty straight forward if it actually works and stays on your car. 

However, I am wondering about this other type of rustproofing/undercoating that the Hyundai dealership tried to sell me for about 5.5 times the cost of the Krown application.  They said it is a thick coating that permanently remains on the car, permanently stays tacky to the touch, has great sound deadening qualities, and is under warrenty.  They only catch to the warrenty is that you take the car back in every 2 years for an free inspection and free touch up.  They claimed in their sales pitch it is far superiour to the normal oil based as this stuff doesn't drip and won't wear off over the course of the year.  In case it makes a difference, I am from Ontario Canada.

Just wondering if anyone has heard of another type of rustproofing/undercoating that might be this stuff I am talking about.  Unfortunately could not get much info out of them on it other than the rehersed sales pitch.  This stuff sounds alot like the Rhino pick up bed spay on lining to me.

mscooper

[inco]

The best one out there that has been repeatedly mentioned is Krown.  End of story.

[mscooper]

That's pretty much what I have always heard too and likely will go with that when I pick up my car.  Just wanted to try and get some ideas on rustproofing out there after they tried to sell me that undercoating/rustproofing stuff and badly inflated prices.  Thanks.

mscooper

[articsteve]

Rather than rustproofing I suggest you apply the money to more frequent car washes. A neighbor has done that with his 1995 Toyota since new and it doesn't have any rust. We're in Southern Ontario.

I would say Owen Sound is in "southern Ontario" and the place is covered in salt.  Now if you go to Niagara Falls or Windsor the use of salt is much, much less.

[articsteve]

That's pretty much what I have always heard too and likely will go with that when I pick up my car.  Just wanted to try and get some ideas on rustproofing out there after they tried to sell me that undercoating/rustproofing stuff and badly inflated prices.  Thanks.

mscooper

Just wanted to try and get some ideas on rustproofing out there after they tried to sell me that undercoating/rustproofing stuff and badly inflated prices.

All dealerships now are selling the "dripless" type rust proofing applications because the profit is so terrific.  There is about $30 worth of product in each application. It's such a joke because the stuff is totally ineffective; hence they fly this bogus "warranty" by customers to justify the ridiculous price.

Two things about that kind of undercoating:  it actually traps moisture and promotes rust on the under body and if the car needs sound proofing more than stock then maybe they shouldn't be selling it.

About Krown; yes it washes off the bottom, but that is not the part that is of major concern.  It's the inner body panels, trunk lids, etc. that need Krown and  one treatment lasts longer that one year.

Get it done every second year or every third and that will keep surface rust from popping out on the fenders,  trunk lid, around the rear lights and rockers; the typical places.  Car floors rot from the inside out usually because of wet carpets.  Spraying the dripless gunk on the underside of the car won't stop that.
BTW, the dealerships that I do business with none of the employees use the dealer "dripless" stuff.  If they go and sell their cars then then will do an application so they can tell ppl it is "rust proofed".  No shortage of stupid used car buyers.

In summary, dealers that sell the "insured" "dripless" for life rustproofing, and they all do now, are stealing money from their customers.  There is no other way to put it.

[barrie1]

The City of Windsor as almost NO Snow removal equipment as they don't really get hardly any Snow at all compared to their neighbours 100 miles down the road. They are in the Vally of the Jolly Green Giant which is a actual valley taking in many miles around Leaminton to Windsor and Essex areas. Very mild winters compared to the rest of Ont and they never use salt on the roads hardly ever. They don't have the need to use it. Niagara Falls is in a similar like Snow area with very little accumulation at all as well. These 2 areas cannot be compared to the Northern parts of the Province at all with the Snow fall and salt useage. 

[mscooper]

All dealerships now are selling the "dripless" type rust proofing applications because the profit is so terrific.  There is about $30 worth of product in each application. It's such a joke because the stuff is totally ineffective; hence they fly this bogus "warranty" by customers to justify the ridiculous price.

Two things about that kind of undercoating:  it actually traps moisture and promotes rust on the under body and if the car needs sound proofing more than stock then maybe they shouldn't be selling it.

Glad you found my message.  I will definately stick with Krown then in that case.  Thanks for the info.  I live in Barrie, so I know all about driving in lots of snow and salt.

mscooper

[exJunkie]

One thing about Krown Rustproofing that is a side effect that you should know is that:

It can cause the rubber mouldings, around windows, the rubber around the trunk seal and hood to become deformed. That means that the oil will react with the soft rubber and cause it to look like it has stretched or curled and it will not seal around your windows perfectly anymore possible leaving large gaps for water/ice to get into. So....despite what the Krown Rustproofing guy might tell you, I would personally strongly suggest that you wash your car thoroughly....in a regualr 'touch' car wash to ensure that all of the oil is removed from the surface of your car like around the windows. Then wipe off the oil around the trunk where it touches your rubber connecting seem.And also do your hood.

I had a problem with this when I went to a new  Krown Rustproofer with my new car last Feb. and  he told me to leave the car without washing it for at least a couple of days to let the chemical really spread around inside the car panels.

What I was used to from a different Krown Rustproofer location is that they automatically always washed my cars immediately right after having them rustproofed. I never new why, but , now I do. Make sure you select a good  Krown Rustproofing location before you get it done. I recommend the one in Toronto on the Queensway just west of Kipling.

[articsteve]

One thing about Krown Rustproofing that is a side effect that you should know is that:

It can cause the rubber mouldings, around windows, the rubber around the trunk seal and hood to become deformed. That means that the oil will react with the soft rubber and cause it to look like it has stretched or curled and it will not seal around your windows perfectly anymore possible leaving large gaps for water/ice to get into. So....despite what the Krown Rustproofing guy might tell you, I would personally strongly suggest that you wash your car thoroughly....in a regualr 'touch' car wash to ensure that all of the oil is removed from the surface of your car like around the windows. Then wipe off the oil around the trunk where it touches your rubber connecting seem.And also do your hood.

I had a problem with this when I went to a new  Krown Rustproofer with my new car last Feb. and  he told me to leave the car without washing it for at least a couple of days to let the chemical really spread around inside the car panels.

What I was used to from a different Krown Rustproofer location is that they automatically always washed my cars immediately right after having them rustproofed. I never new why, but , now I do. Make sure you select a good  Krown Rustproofing location before you get it done. I recommend the one in Toronto on the Queensway just west of Kipling.

What I was used to from a different Krown Rustproofer location is that they automatically always washed my cars immediately right after having them rustproofed. I never new why, but , now I do. Make sure you select a good  Krown Rustproofing location before you get it done

What a garbage post!    Forums can be dangerous places when you hear sh*t like that.

Indeed, caution shoud be used with Volvos because of a particular virgin rubber used on models in the mid 90s.  I don't know if this applies to current Volvos.  The guy I had my 98 Volvo S70 done by, who was the original Rust Check dealer in the GTA and then became the original Krown dealer in the GTA suggested I wipe off any dribbles that got on the door and trunk rubber over the next few days.  It is not like the application is sprayed directly on the rubber seals.  I had the car done twice and no ISSUES.


DO NOT wash your car until 3 days after application.  One doesn't want to rinse the stuff out of the places it is creeping into.

As to why a very few Krown dealers wash the vehicles; because they use it as a sales gimmick to attract ppl that can't tolerate their car being an oily mess for a few days.        Having the car remain a tad unsightly is part of the process.  It remains messy to some extent (lower parts) for many months regardless of washing due to leaching.  Its part of the process; its not a quick fix/ perfect package.  Definitely not a product for SOME.

[Craig]

I've had my vehicles Krowned since 1991, and never had any rubber mouldings deformed.

ExJunkie, why did you choose that particular moment to start believing a salesman?  I thought they were all out to get you?

[exJunkie]

Well articsteve you must have some kind of personal and financial interest in Krown to so boldly defend it and to lambaste my honest posting.

I did not make a garbage post, however, what I did to is have  my civic with 400km on it rustproofed by Krown McCowan/Lawrence. They also spray oil around the window trims on the outside including the little corner windows that the new civics have.

Several days later I washed my car. As you know, oil will still drain out of the bottom of door panels and everywhere else that it has accumulated for days or weeks later, . There was also oil seeping out of areas like the door handles and oil had stlll been accumulating around the rubber/plastic mouldings around the windows, in particular around that triangle window of the new civic. Well a few days after that I noticed that the rubber seal that seals the triangle window to the car metal on the triangle window had becomed warped/distored/and unattached to the car . It was all oily from oil which had adhered to it and just sat there and accumulated. Difficult to wash off even at a car wash. There was a large gap between the rubber seal and the door where water and ice etc. could get into. So far as I am concerned this was the result of oil, contacting the very thin (2mm)wide rubber seal around the triangle sitting there for several days causing it to swell and warp.

If you want , I can take a digital picture. This swelling , warping of the rubber seal on my NEW car happend after and because of the oily chemical allowed to soak in it for too long.

It's not just the Vovlo's .

[Craig]

Well articsteve you must have some kind of personal and financial interest in Krown to so boldly defend it and to lambaste my honest posting.

Congrats, Steve, you are now in on the conspiracy as well.

The National Anti-exJunkie Conspiracy meeting will be held at the Four Seasons in Toronto, at a secret time.  It wouldn't be a conspiracy if we just announce the time to everyone, and conspiracies don't just happen without some kind of planning, you know.

[articsteve]

Well articsteve you must have some kind of personal and financial interest in Krown to so boldly defend it and to lambaste my honest posting.

I did not make a garbage post, however, what I did to is have  my civic with 400km on it rustproofed by Krown McCowan/Lawrence. They also spray oil around the window trims on the outside including the little corner windows that the new civics have.

Several days later I washed my car. As you know, oil will still drain out of the bottom of door panels and everywhere else that it has accumulated for days or weeks later, . There was also oil seeping out of areas like the door handles and oil had stlll been accumulating around the rubber/plastic mouldings around the windows, in particular around that triangle window of the new civic. Well a few days after that I noticed that the rubber seal that seals the triangle window to the car metal on the triangle window had becomed warped/distored/and unattached to the car . It was all oily from oil which had adhered to it and just sat there and accumulated. Difficult to wash off even at a car wash. There was a large gap between the rubber seal and the door where water and ice etc. could get into. So far as I am concerned this was the result of oil, contacting the very thin (2mm)wide rubber seal around the triangle sitting there for several days causing it to swell and warp.

If you want , I can take a digital picture. This swelling , warping of the rubber seal on my NEW car happend after and because of the oily chemical allowed to soak in it for too long.

It's not just the Vovlo's .

Well articsteve you must have some kind of personal and financial interest in Krown to so boldly defend it and to lambaste my honest posting.

Your post may be honest but it's quite insane.

If Krown reacted like you say it does then every piece of rubber on the firewall would be fryed as well as every rubber bushing on the chasis.

I got a 2006 DXG coupe done at the of October/05 and no ill effects.

If you want a top notch Krown job in the east end go to Markham and Lawrence providing the old couple are still running it.  They are the GTA's original Rust Check turned Krown dealer.

The problem with insane posts like yours is they do others a disservice.  No doubt you chased some Krown fence sitters away from trying Krown.

In any event, it sounds like your new Civic is now near worthless and a nightmare to ride in while raining.  I suspose you buy a good deal of paper towel ?

 

[exJunkie]

Firstly, this post does a good service to all who read and are interested in aftermarket rustproofing

I would recomend the Krown on Queensway and Kipling. Artic, you really must feel sympathy for the guy at Markham and Lawrence or you are good friends with him or you have a stake in the franchise. That is the perception. I dont recommend him again.

I canl take a picture of the triangle windows and the damage from the oil. There is no other explanation for it.

However, In the future I will ask, and perhaps  mscooper might want to do the same, is that no oil is sprayed on the window and other rubber mouldings of the car. Anyways, the outside is not where you need the Krown chemical anyways, its inside the door panels.

I don't mean to scare people off artic. but, people need to be careful. If you soak a piece of soft rubber, like the one on the trianlge window, it is going to absorb the stuff and swell. As it tries to swell, it needs to go somewhere and so it becomes all distorted.

I don't know if the firewall and rubber bushings are damaged or not because I can not get under the car to see it!!!!! And further more, those rubbers are probably not the same rubber that is found specifically joining and sealing off the triangle window to the door from wind and the elements. So the rubber on the underside might not be affected by the oil at all.

Why else on earth would this happen to my NEW car on both the driver and passenger side?

Thats a pretty big manufacturer defect don't you think? Its the Krown oil that did it. And other drivers need to be aware of it.

Don't you think that since this is such a new car..that perhaps I discovered an anomaly that others should be aware of. Just like it happened to the Vovlo owners with Krown?

[The Fuzz]

I won't pick sides but I will say that I have had 4 vehicles rustproofed with no negative side effects and continue to get them done.

[articsteve]

Firstly, this post does a good service to all who read and are interested in aftermarket rustproofing

I would recomend the Krown on Queensway and Kipling. Artic, you really must feel sympathy for the guy at Markham and Lawrence or you are good friends with him or you have a stake in the franchise. That is the perception. I dont recommend him again.

I canl take a picture of the triangle windows and the damage from the oil. There is no other explanation for it.

However, In the future I will ask, and perhaps  mscooper might want to do the same, is that no oil is sprayed on the window and other rubber mouldings of the car. Anyways, the outside is not where you need the Krown chemical anyways, its inside the door panels.

I don't mean to scare people off artic. but, people need to be careful. If you soak a piece of soft rubber, like the one on the trianlge window, it is going to absorb the stuff and swell. As it tries to swell, it needs to go somewhere and so it becomes all distorted.

I don't know if the firewall and rubber bushings are damaged or not because I can not get under the car to see it!!!!! And further more, those rubbers are probably not the same rubber that is found specifically joining and sealing off the triangle window to the door from wind and the elements. So the rubber on the underside might not be affected by the oil at all.

Why else on earth would this happen to my NEW car on both the driver and passenger side?

Thats a pretty big manufacturer defect don't you think? Its the Krown oil that did it. And other drivers need to be aware of it.

Don't you think that since this is such a new car..that perhaps I discovered an anomaly that others should be aware of. Just like it happened to the Vovlo owners with Krown?

I would recomend the Krown on Queensway and Kipling. Artic, you really must feel sympathy for the guy at Markham and Lawrence or you are good friends with him or you have a stake in the franchise. That is the perception. I dont recommend him again.

So you have used this old man at Markham and Lawrence.  He is the one that sprayed your 06 Civic?

However up the thread you said this: I did not make a garbage post, however, what I did to is have  my civic with 400km on it rustproofed by Krown McCowan/Lawrence.

So I suppose now you are going to claim that you got your roads mixed up and instead of McCowan you meant Markham.

EXjunkie you are a teller of porkies.  That is what you do; tell porkies on internet forums. 

Why else on earth would this happen to my NEW car on both the driver and passenger side?

Thats a pretty big manufacturer defect don't you think? Its the Krown oil that did it. And other drivers need to be aware of it.

Don't you think that since this is such a new car..that perhaps I discovered an anomaly that others should be aware of. Just like it happened to the Vovlo owners with Krown?

Your insane.

Goodbye. 

[Panzer]

All dealerships now are selling the "dripless" type rust proofing applications because the profit is so terrific.  There is about $30 worth of product in each application. It's such a joke because the stuff is totally ineffective; hence they fly this bogus "warranty" by customers to justify the ridiculous price.

Two things about that kind of undercoating:  it actually traps moisture and promotes rust on the under body and if the car needs sound proofing more than stock then maybe they shouldn't be selling it.

In summary, dealers that sell the "insured" "dripless" for life rustproofing, and they all do now, are stealing money from their customers.  There is no other way to put it.

Yeah, I've noticed articsteve being quite pro-Krown as well.  I've had the 'worthless dripless gunk' applied to my car when I bought it and I'm quite happy with it so far.  I'll be glad to post anything that happens to the car rust-wise in the future to prove/disprove this.

Articsteve's right when he says that the dripless stuff can and will trap moisture in.  This is why my Subaru dealership insisted it be done before I took the car on the road to minimize/eliminate this problem.  Once again, I'll be glad to post anything should something occur.

I took the dripless option over Krown for the following reasons:
- cheaper in the long run
- no dripping anywhere
- no smell
- no making appointments every year

If you have a used car, Krown's your only option as the dripless stuff will indeed trap moisture.  If you have a new car that you haven't taken delivery of yet, then the one-shot dripless stuff does become a viable option.

Since an educate consumer is worth his/her weight in gold, check out both sites and compare the pros/cons:

http://www.krown.com/

http://www.permaplate.com/

Both companies seem, IMO, good and they've both been in business for decades.

[exJunkie]

I went to the old guy...at Markham and Lawrence. OK so I made a mistake and said McCowan and Lawrence. Should I appoligise cause I mixed up a smilar intersection in Toronto? Especially since I don't live in scarborough where those two streets are found next to one another.  Besides, what is the point of that artic there is only one Krown at Lawrence on the south east corner behind a strip plaza. If its Markham road or McCowan correct me if I am wrong but there are no other Krowns around there. It is almost like you are implying artic that there is another Krown at McCowan and Lawrence?

And no I am not talking about Rust Check which is also in the vicinity.

Anyways, I am not trying to convince artic...but, I want to warn mscooper about the rubber on her car. I will still go to Krown, at another location in a couple of years and tell them NOT to spray any of the rubber on the car. But, if anyone is having their cars Krowned, I suggest you wash the car yourself immidiately afterwards and thoroughly. Espeically rubber on the exterior. At least , the Krown that I went to for 3 years always did. That is the one on Queensway and I am pretty sure it is west of Kipling or it could be Islington I just can't remember the exact cross street since they both look the same and I haven't been there in over a few years but I can find out specifically if you want me to. They always washed everyones car afterwards. And on a sunny Saturday morning, there was a line up of 7 or more cars there waiting to be rustproofed. I strongly recommend their work.

As you said artic, one of the most important factors in a good rust proofing job is the techinicians ability to do the job well. The ones at Krown on Queensway in Toronto do a very good job. Address is  1541 The Queensway
 Etobicoke
 ON
 M8Z 1T5
 (416) 503-0505

WEB SITE  .:  http://www.krown.com/etobicoke/  You see how they wash the car afterwards!! There is a good reason for it They did not do this at the Lawrence location which caused my problems.

Please check out their web site mscooper. You will see from the pictures that they do such a thorough bathing in oil , and the job by the technician in the pictures is very consistant, thorough, precise and organized. The job done by the Krown at 3585 Lawrence Ave. E. Scarborough ON M1G 1P4 (416) 431-3693 looked patchy unorganized and not as thorough. Still probably acceptable to some.
 
 

[safristi]

Would be Nice !! IF some Consumers Magazine (hint hint) took the TIME to assess the REAL NEED (IF ANY) for extra "Rustproofing"....say take 20 cars(of various manufacturers..Euro,Domestic,Japanese,Korean) from their long term fleets (and follow them up for 10-15 years) 10 with nothing but Factory "protection" 10 with KROWN(Ideally 100 cars. with 3 other protectants,say oiling,Ziebart private label ...and a Snowballs Placebo...i.e Weekly underside washing and cleaning)....NAH!!! too much TROUBLE EH!!!.....NOT....put this puppy to rest for once and ALL.....like seat protection and Teflon detailing....!!!! fer $600 a POP.....goes yer WEASEL.....

[Craig]

exJunkie - just post pictures of the "damage" already.  Until then, you're just on another stupid forum crusade, and it was hard to take you seriously long before this thread.



From my perspective, it is better to displace moisture than coat an object and try to prevent moisture from getting in.  Water is incidious - it will find a way.  AS has repeatedly stated than dealer-applied products are worse than no rustproofing at all.  I had dealer-applied rustproofing on my 98 Mercury Mystique, and at five years, the mechanicals blew up before the body started to show signs of rust, so at least dealer-applied made it that far.  I do believe that some no-drip solutions have sound insulation properties, but Krown has some further advantages as well, because it displaces water from electrical connections, and lubricates any moving parts it touches.

As for Steve's affinity for the product, Krown is probably a little pissed with him for suggesting that it's OK to skip a year or two.  They'd rather have the yearly business, thanks.

My 91 YJ was Krown'ed, and was rust-free except for the hinges until we sold it 7 years later.  7-year-old YJ's without rust spots on the body are very uncommon.  I went away from Krown in 98 because of the dripping.  I came back after reading more literature, and realizing it was the better product.  Since then, we've had our Matrix, X-Trail, and 4Runner Krown'ed.  No problems with the rubber.  We put down cardboard to catch the drips.