Topic: CD Article: 2006 Acura CSX

[The Mighty Duck]

Also, once the novelty wears off ... won't people just shove it in Drive and just go?  Anyway, it's not a bad idea ... I'm just waiting (or looking) for a better "setup".

But that's true of ANY manumatic...  this method allows them to advertise it as "F1 style"...  Paddle Shifters ARE the best setup for speed of shifting certainly, and novelty at the moment, too.

Pretty neat, imo...  but I'd still rather have a proper stick shift.

[Prius]

But what about the clutchless manuals like SMG or DSG? They're not manumatics (i.e. not automatics with manual mode) but rather clutchless manuals (some with and without automatic mode).

[a4_tom]

I only drive in "D" 100% of the time in my Multitronic CVT but use DSG paddle shifter 100%. CVT already a more efficient system than torque converter-based manumatics out there.

[G0dspd]

Apologies for the long post! 

SMG II
"The Sequential M Gearbox, is essentially a six-speed manual gearbox where the clutch and gearbox are operated electro-hydraulically by a computer in response to the driver pulling on two paddles behind the steering wheel, or by pushing a floor shifter forwards or backwards. There is no clutch pedal. As well, the SMG is capable of operating completely automatically if desired.  First, note that the SMG system is not an automatic transmission than can be shifted manually - like BMW's Steptronic or Porsche's Tiptronic - it is a manual transmission with a clutch, but without a clutch pedal, that can change gears by itself in response to driver input. BMW developed the SMG in close collaboration with Getrag and Sachs, and uses a similar technology in F1.  The system also includes a 'DriveLogic' button just behind the gear lever that allows the driver to adjust the speed of shifts and the shift points using six different settings."

Ferrari supposedly has a similar technology but they don't have the "automatic" option. (Practicality depends on preference)

DSG
"Like automated manual gearbox, BorgWarner’s DualTronic can operate as a semi-automatic, where the driver changes gears via buttons, paddles or conventional shifter. There is no clutch pedal, because the clutch is automatic while the gearshift is implemented by electro-hydraulic actuators. For relax driving, there is also a full automatic mode, where computer determines which gear to be selected.  Pre-selection of gears quicken the shift a lot. Upshift takes just 8ms, 10 times quicker than BMW SMG II which is the fastest automated manual gearbox currently available. Downshift is less impressive, because the gearbox need to wait for the throttle blip to match gearbox speed with engine speed. Change down a gear therefore takes 600ms. Changing down a few gears could be more complicated. The most complicated is from 6th to 2nd (both are controlled by the same clutch while the distance between the two gears is the longest). It needs to change to 5th (controlled by another clutch) temporarily before 2nd is selected. This takes 900ms."

So the DSG is the same thing but modernized with a twin-clutch gearbox.  Anyway, SMG or DSG is more what I would like to have in a car with paddles.  A DSG transmission with a SMG shifter in the car would be fantastic. (will never happen I know)

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/images/02m3_smg3.jpg

[Prius]

Apologies for the long post! 

SMG II
"The Sequential M Gearbox, is essentially a six-speed manual gearbox where the clutch and gearbox are operated electro-hydraulically by a computer in response to the driver pulling on two paddles behind the steering wheel, or by pushing a floor shifter forwards or backwards. There is no clutch pedal. As well, the SMG is capable of operating completely automatically if desired.  First, note that the SMG system is not an automatic transmission than can be shifted manually - like BMW's Steptronic or Porsche's Tiptronic - it is a manual transmission with a clutch, but without a clutch pedal, that can change gears by itself in response to driver input. BMW developed the SMG in close collaboration with Getrag and Sachs, and uses a similar technology in F1.  The system also includes a 'DriveLogic' button just behind the gear lever that allows the driver to adjust the speed of shifts and the shift points using six different settings."


Ferrari supposedly has a similar technology but they don't have the "automatic" option. (Practicality depends on preference)

DSG
"Like automated manual gearbox, BorgWarner’s DualTronic can operate as a semi-automatic, where the driver changes gears via buttons, paddles or conventional shifter. There is no clutch pedal, because the clutch is automatic while the gearshift is implemented by electro-hydraulic actuators. For relax driving, there is also a full automatic mode, where computer determines which gear to be selected.  Pre-selection of gears quicken the shift a lot. Upshift takes just 8ms, 10 times quicker than BMW SMG II which is the fastest automated manual gearbox currently available. Downshift is less impressive, because the gearbox need to wait for the throttle blip to match gearbox speed with engine speed. Change down a gear therefore takes 600ms. Changing down a few gears could be more complicated. The most complicated is from 6th to 2nd (both are controlled by the same clutch while the distance between the two gears is the longest). It needs to change to 5th (controlled by another clutch) temporarily before 2nd is selected. This takes 900ms."

So the DSG is the same thing but modernized with a twin-clutch gearbox.  Anyway, SMG or DSG is more what I would like to have in a car with paddles.  A DSG transmission with a SMG shifter in the car would be fantastic. (will never happen I know)

http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/images/02m3_smg3.jpg

exactly.. clutchless manuals are fun, the semi-automatics are okay but aren't that fun to drive. The clutchless manuals are more engaging. Besides, F1 cars have a hand clutch instead of a pedal so they're still manuals.

[skypoint]

After sitting in the CSX and the Mazda 3, the 3 has 3 major disadvatanges versus the CSX.

1) The 3 feels smaller inside
2) The 3 only has a 4-speed auto, vs 5 speed int he CSX

and most importantly

3) The 3's tactile surfaces don't feel as high quality as the CSX. The CSX clearly uses much more high quality plastics.


The CSX is to me a natural competitor to the Volvo S40. True, the CSX is little more than spruced up Honda Civic. But on the other hand, the S40 is nothing more than a spruced up Ford Focus/Mazda 3. (The Euro Ford Focus).

[quadzilla]

The 3 only has a 4-speed auto, vs 5 speed int he CSX

I think if you get the 2.3 in the Mz3 it now comes with a 5 speed auto.

On the issue of manumatics and shifting...I still manually shift mine after a year of ownership.  Maybe its more because I really miss driving manual. 

[Shnak]

The CSX is to me a natural competitor to the Volvo S40. True, the CSX is little more than spruced up Honda Civic. But on the other hand, the S40 is nothing more than a spruced up Ford Focus/Mazda 3. (The Euro Ford Focus).

Amen to that!

(EDIT: I just want to specify that I know that there is a bigger difference between the Mazda3 and the S40 than there is between the Civic and the CSX... but the principle is the same)

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I only drive in "D" 100% of the time in my Multitronic CVT but use DSG paddle shifter 100%. CVT already a more efficient system than torque converter-based manumatics out there.

Thanks Audi. I posed this Q in the VW Fast Ad thread, but you just answered it 

[skypoint]

(EDIT: I just want to specify that I know that there is a bigger difference between the Mazda3 and the S40 than there is between the Civic and the CSX... but the principle is the same)

Very true. But the CSX compensates through being much cheaper than the S40.

If you spend a lot of time lurking around Volvo dealerships... you will find that the S40 only shares its styling with other Volvos. The actualy material quality puts the S40 closer to Ford / Mazda territory than the remainder of the Volvo range!

[Prius]

And the fact that the new Euro Focus is a better car than the last one (which is the one we still have).

[Shnak]

And the fact that the new Euro Focus is a better car than the last one (which is the one we still have).

Yes but how does the Euro Focus compare with our new Civic?

[gosteelerz]

After sitting in the CSX and the Mazda 3, the 3 has 3 major disadvatanges versus the CSX.

1) The 3 feels smaller inside

But in reality it's not.  Probably the steeply raked windshield creates this illusion.


2) The 3 only has a 4-speed auto, vs 5 speed int he CSX

5-speed auto on 2.3 L models, already mentioned a couple of posts up.

and most importantly

3) The 3's tactile surfaces don't feel as high quality as the CSX. The CSX clearly uses much more high quality plastics.

It should for 5 grand more.  Having said that, I have never been in the CSX so I will make the assumption that it's plastics are superior to the Civic's as well.


The CSX is to me a natural competitor to the Volvo S40. True, the CSX is little more than spruced up Honda Civic. But on the other hand, the S40 is nothing more than a spruced up Ford Focus/Mazda 3. (The Euro Ford Focus).

Thats's quite a sprucing up considering the Volvo and the Mazda do not share a single panel or look anything alike.  They just share the same platform and that's where it ends.  Compare that to the CSx where you have a token nose and tail job.  The visual difference between a CSX and a Civic is about the the same as comparing an 03' and 04' Civic.

[Prius]

And the fact that the new Euro Focus is a better car than the last one (which is the one we still have).

Yes but how does the Euro Focus compare with our new Civic?

No idea, I guess we'll have to wait til Ford decides to send it over as our Focus replacement.

[G0dspd]

 mmmmm ... Focus ST   In blue please!

[jitsu303]

Going back over the previous 4 pages, two main differences appear to jump out from CSX fans.

1. Power..to me an extra 10 % hp or torque (in a heavier car) is not worth it....really, who drives these cars?  How many end up on real race tracks (not the imaginary ones you fantasize on your way to work in the am).  The base Civic has plenty of real world power..more than adequate for highway passing, even up-hill...if that's not enough for you, you are probably driving like a lunatic or just jealous because your buddy has x more hp in his _____.  One thing I did notice about the last Civic though...VERY prone to cross winds on the highway...to the point it's almost scary.
2. Leather seats, HID headlights and nav systems do not make a luxury vehicle..just ask Hyundai.  Personally, I love heated seats but hate leather seats...too damn cold and slippery in winter and hot and sticky in the summer.  Xenon lights are great but stock lights are much better these days than when DOT regs tried to repress the imports.  I've never used a nav system other than the handheld GPS I installed in my truck 10 years ago.  It's a truck I use 95% on logging roads.  I wouldn't take the time to learn the nav system in the CDX and I don't think most owners would either.  But I don't live in a large city either, I know where I'm going.

My vote is still that it's not worth the $$.  Well...maybe for my grandparents puttering around town and wanting to feel a little extravagent.....

[Shnak]

You're right... more than 140hp in a car is completely stupid, idiotic and only for lunatics.

 

[a4_tom]

Because 140hp+ is too much car to handle for you.

[jitsu303]

Now play nice...I'm talking about for the regular smuck that would buy a CSX...not for the "Legends in their own minds" people who think they are Takuma Crasho or Fernando Alonso.
FWIW, I'll put my 20v 90 or urQ up against your 1.8t any day.

and a Jetta?

[Shnak]

Hey don't bring me and my car into this... my 177 lb-ft @ 1800 – 2400 rpm Jetta is more than enough for my needs.

But if I were to buy a Civic, I'd go with the CSX for its 2.0L engine, without a single doubt. Unless the 1.8L is an immense improvement over the 1.7L it replaces, I doubt I'd want a car with such a small engine for the weight of the car...

Torque... I want torque!!!!!!