Author Topic: CD Article: Giant winter traction test (Read 9568 times)

Howswedeitis · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:34:51 am »

Interesting test...I'd like to see in future a snow tire comparison test.

I've found over the years that the best winter tire by far are the ones
made by Nokian...the Hakkapeilitta series offer the best traction and
forgiving break away characteristics. They have saved my a** more
than a few times!

I mention this because you rarely hear about the brand as everyone
touts brands like Michelin, Bridgestone etc which are not quite as good
as the Nokians.

si · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:54:44 am »

Did you lucky ~~bastards~~ journalists know that or try to stop the cars braking just at the limit before ABS kicks in vs. full blown ABS? I always find the threshold braking right before ABS provides the maximum braking power while still being able to steer.

MJMontreal · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:46:25 pm »

I am really disappointed that the smart performed so poorly! After ready other reviews which claim that it is a capable car in winter conditions - I am surprised at the CanadianDriver results.

This is a quite from another article posted on the site:

Last year I took one over a test track Mercedes-Benz set up, which featured snow over a thick coat of ice. Provided the car is properly equipped with snow tires - Smart comes standard with summer-only rubber - it's about the same as driving any other compact car in poor conditions. Jil MacIntosh September 28, 2005

In Lapresse they did a comparison between a smart, a Jeep Liberty CDI and a VW Passat. They do admit that it has its shortcomings but, given the cars purpose, there criticisms aren't as harsh.

I wonder how poorly it would rate if tested against other microcars. After all the smart has been sold in other countries with similar climates for several years (Finland, Sweden, etc.)

wing · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:52:20 pm »

Quote from: robarakira on February 23, 2006, 11:54:44 am

Did you lucky ~~bastards~~ journalists know that or try to stop the cars braking just at the limit before ABS kicks in vs. full blown ABS? I always find the threshold braking right before ABS provides the maximum braking power while still being able to steer.

Yes, I tried this a few times and the cars did stop quicker.

MJMontreal,

The wording of how bad the smart was is a little misleading. I drove it, I found it accelerated ok, albeit slow but it is slow in the dry as well. I found it handled ok, but the nanny equipement kicks in so early the car feels odd to drive, if you correct oversteer it double corrects and makes things worse, it is built so if something happens you let go of the controls and let the car do it's thing, which IMO and many others not the way people should be driving. Braking I found it braked fine in a straight line.

Prius · « **Reply #24 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:07:48 pm »

Interesting. They should organise these events across Canada. This will allow people to experience the difference and dispel the notion of all-season tyres.

Interestingly enough, the Highlander they used was a base Highlander Hybrid equipped with VDIM which is more aggressive than Toyota's standard TRAC and VSC systems.

Also, I thought the Civic Hybrid has standard traction control and brake assist?

chrischasescars · « **Reply #25 on:** February 23, 2006, 03:09:21 pm »

Honestly, the only thing I liked about the Smart was how you can basically look straight down at the back bumper through the back window when you're backing up. I'd been looking forward to driving it for the first time, but grew to hate it pretty quickly. Ugh.

MJMontreal · « **Reply #26 on:** February 23, 2006, 04:46:41 pm »

I hope to rent a smart before winter is over!

Try it out for myself. I have read reviews that praise it and others seem to hate it. I even see people in these forums giving reasons why the smart "isn't selling well". Apparently they planned to sell 1 000 units and have sold over 4 000...

davidm · « **Reply #27 on:** February 23, 2006, 05:24:07 pm »

Quote from: wing on February 23, 2006, 07:26:39 am

The Mercedes was amazing. The Pirelli 210 tires it was sporting were also one of the best tires available for ice and snow traction.

The Merc would brake individual wheels as you entered a corner to avoid under or oversteer. Although the system was pretty noisy you knew it was working as it click clanked away.

Are there multiple versions of the 210's? I have the 210's on the Audi, and while they are good, I find the Dunlop M3's on the BMW to be much better in most conditions - particularly the dry and very cold wet. Been very happy with the M3 and my RWD bimmer in packed snow parking lots. Surprised you liked the 210's better than the WS-50s for this fairly extreme test.

johngenx · « **Reply #28 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:06:55 pm »

Mercedes' 4-Matic is often overshadowed by Audi's and Subaru's, but it's an awesome system and combined with ESP it really works, especially for people that get a little nervous in the snow. Our E300 had ESP and my wife loved it, but I always switched off as it seemed to intervene too early for my liking.

The best winter vehicle we've ever owned, and by some margin, is the Forester. It's nearly 500lbs lighter than our Legacu Outback was, meaning shorter stops on poor traction surfaces. The shorter overhangs really contribute to offroad capability, and meant I had no problem clearing a pretty significant snow-berm a few weeks ago in the mountains. If it had an ESP-type of system, it would be pretty much perfect, but it's really, really, really good without it.

chrischasescars · « **Reply #29 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:08:55 pm »

Quote from: davidm on February 23, 2006, 05:24:07 pm

Quote from: wing on February 23, 2006, 07:26:39 am
The Mercedes was amazing. The Pirelli 210 tires it was sporting were also one of the best tires available for ice and snow traction.

The Merc would brake individual wheels as you entered a corner to avoid under or oversteer. Although the system was pretty noisy you knew it was working as it click clanked away.

Are there multiple versions of the 210's? I have the 210's on the Audi, and while they are good, I find the Dunlop M3's on the BMW to be much better in most conditions - particularly the dry and very cold wet. Been very happy with the M3 and my RWD bimmer in packed snow parking lots. Surprised you liked the 210's better than the WS-50s for this fairly extreme test.

Keep in mind we weren't on packed snow, though - most of the surfaces we were driving on were sheer ice. It could just be that the 210s are a little better on ice than the WS-50s.

chrischasescars · « **Reply #30 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:10:53 pm »

Quote from: johngenx on February 23, 2006, 06:06:55 pm

The best winter vehicle we've ever owned, and by some margin, is the Forester. It's nearly 500lbs lighter than our Legacu Outback was, meaning shorter stops on poor traction surfaces. The shorter overhangs really contribute to offroad capability, and meant I had no problem clearing a pretty significant snow-berm a few weeks ago in the mountains. If it had an ESP-type of system, it would be pretty much perfect, but it's really, really, really good without it.

The Forester's shorter wheelbase probably helps it too. I love the Forester - the compact size of the Impreza with more cargo space.

AVToller · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:25:16 pm »

I agree about the Forester, but if I were to ever own another one, it would DEFINITELY get some good rubber for the winter. The OEM tires were brutal. A good AWD system can only overcome so much!

wing · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2006, 06:50:36 pm »

The 210's really shine on ice and compromise some snow grip, the WS-50's seemed to be weak on ice and really kicked abs on constantly.

johngenx · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2006, 07:22:35 pm »

Quote from: AVToller on February 23, 2006, 06:25:16 pm

I agree about the Forester, but if I were to ever own another one, it would DEFINITELY get some good rubber for the winter. The OEM tires were brutal. A good AWD system can only overcome so much!

Yeah, the tires are the key. Another reason I think the Forester is better in the ice/snow than our OBW was is due to the slightly smaller brakes allowing 15" wheels. We put Blizzaks on steel wheels and went to a taller, narrower size than the OE 16" size. The narrower tires work very well!

Not that the OBW was bad! No! Just that the Forester is even better!

We have WS-50's on the Subaru (Revo 1 on the MB) and I'm pretty impressed with their ice performance. We had some pretty icy conditions in the mountains and traction was plentiful.

Benhaze · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2006, 11:56:05 pm »

Quote from: stickshift on February 23, 2006, 11:11:49 am

OTOH, the Charger, while it was a ton of fun on dry roads, absolutely stank on slick surfaces.

So what happened when Chrysler introduced the RWD 300C and Charger and had many "professional" reviewers test drove these car in Auburn Hills? The only thing we could read everywhere was how good these cars were, how much the traction control and ESP systems are perfectly able to handle our winters?

I had to resist writing to one of the local automotive journalists here he was so brained washed he hadn't a clue what he was talking about. Talk about misinforming the public...

sirAQUAMAN64 · « **Reply #35 on:** February 24, 2006, 11:54:23 am »

Quote from: Benhaze on February 23, 2006, 11:56:05 pm

Quote from: stickshift on February 23, 2006, 11:11:49 am

OTOH, the Charger, while it was a ton of fun on dry roads, absolutely stank on slick surfaces.

So what happened when Chrysler introduced the RWD 300C and Charger and had many "professional" reviewers test drove these car in Auburn Hills? The only thing we could read everywhere was how good these cars were, how much the traction control and ESP systems are perfectly able to handle our winters?

I had to resist writing to one of the local automotive journalists here he was so brained washed he hadn't a clue what he was talking about. Talk about misinforming the public...

I was thinking the same RE the 300/Magnum and also journalists' who tested the Smart. But I've driven RWD cars with nanny controls and knew better - technology only helps so much.

I personally wish the Five Hundred would get more respect. I feel it's a near perfect full sized traditional sedan.

Benhaze · « **Reply #36 on:** February 24, 2006, 05:49:42 pm »

I think your wish may come true, to some extent anyway, when the new 3.5L is introduced. The engine will address one of the major concerns for this vehicle and may give it a little spunk. Maybe the conservative look will be more forgiven, especially if Ford can mimic the Fusion front end. If that car had hit the market when the Passat was redone in 1998, it would have been a big success. Now it looks like a re-heated left over...

Whisper · « **Reply #37 on:** April 10, 2006, 01:43:06 pm »

Quote from: Snowman on February 23, 2006, 07:35:57 am

I would like to see a test of winter and all-season tires on wet, slushy, icy roads which better reflect commuting during a winter day.

MCO creates the test track that was used for these tests. The conditions vary through the winter season and the day. The track does not have the normal commuting aids of salt or sand allowed on it.

The track base is a layer of ice, covered in snow. The corners and track get worse during the day. Snow is removed from well used areas, and the increasing heat mixed with the tire polishing of the ice creates 'no-stop' zones. On the warm days the track has had standing water over ice. The track is designed to be a safe environment to learn in, which is hopefully worse then what you find in real life.

Then if a driver does run into a problem, they will know how their car will react and have the skills to handle it.

Snowman · « **Reply #38 on:** April 10, 2006, 06:03:35 pm »

Quote from: Whisper on April 10, 2006, 01:43:06 pm

MCO creates the test track that was used for these tests. The conditions vary through the winter season and the day. The track does not have the normal commuting aids of salt or sand allowed on it.

The track base is a layer of ice, covered in snow. The corners and track get worse during the day. Snow is removed from well used areas, and the increasing heat mixed with the tire polishing of the ice creates 'no-stop' zones. On the warm days the track has had standing water over ice. The track is designed to be a safe environment to learn in, which is hopefully worse then what you find in real life.

Then if a driver does run into a problem, they will know how their car will react and have the skills to handle it.

Gee, I would like to see the test results for that.

StewtheBassman · « **Reply #39 on:** May 22, 2006, 11:24:04 am »

What a great test....Nice work CD.ca staff!!!

I was curious about the Charger....guess that answers my question!

I drive a 2006 BMW 325xi, and with Dunlop Winter M3s, last winter (the winter of the freezing rain), was a breeze.

The Canadian Driver article on xDrive is terrific too, I send it to everybody who wants to know what xDrive is.

I drive into Montreal almost every day, about 85 kms one-way, and that is as much of a torture test for a car as one can think of. Country, highway, and city conditions, all in one hour.

Great test, thanks, and thanks to manufacturers too!