Topic: mushy brakes

[y2chuck]

Just wondering what is likely the cause of mushy feeling brakes.  Our 03 VUE has about 60,000 KM on it and the brakes have always been a bit mushy (well, so has every other GM I've ever driven), now I think the pads are starting to wear and maybe the routers are starting to warp a bit as braking at higher speeds results in some vibration.  It's not too bad yet, but when the time comes to replace the pads/router I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for better quality parts.

I'm just amazed at the difference between our Mazda6 and the VUE (and the difference between the 6 and the G6/Grand Prix I tested before leasing the 6) .  Obviously they're too very different vehicles but the 6 is unbeleivably responsive in comparison.

I don't need ultra-performance or anything, but would higher quality pads/routers make a difference or would I need to replace the whole brake assembly (master/slave cylinders, calipers etc)

I wouldn't be doing it myself and likely wouldn't be going to the dealer for it either.

[articsteve]

 but would higher quality pads/routers make a difference or would I need to replace the whole brake assembly (master/slave cylinders, calipers etc)

Different pads and rotors wouldn't solve the problem.  What might help is to setup up the rear drums tight or fiddle with the proportioning valves.

[mp3butt]

I don't think spongy brake feel has anything directly to do with braking performance. A system can be spongy yet very effective (short, linear stopping system). I guess some Subies can be good examples.

brake fluid pressure can have something to do with "brake feel" though. Make sure it's topped up

[AVToller]

Fluid level will go down as pads and shoes wear, so I agree, make sure they are topped up. The brakes may also need to be bled - traditionally one of the major causes of "mushy brakes"! 

[barrie1]

I don't know how you could fool with the proportioning valve as they are sealed units. New pads and rotors may help to some degree. There are some very good after market parts out there now to choose from and make sure your Brakefluid is clean and full. 

[articsteve]

I don't know how you could fool with the proportioning valve as they are sealed units.

My parts finder list aftermarket proportioning valves for both front and rear for that vehicle.  I said "fiddle".  It was a redundant question to begin with.  But if one's life was depending on it that would be the place I'd try for the least cost. 

[barrie1]

I don't know what you could change them out to as each vehicle has its own made for size because of the length of the brake lines. If the fluid was going bad then I can understand to either flush them out or replace them if the same from the factory. As there is No adjustment on them they are regulated by pressure which is set for the vehicle's design. 

[articsteve]

I don't know what you could change them out to as each vehicle has its own made for size because of the length of the brake lines

I don't know why someone would change them out either to fix what really can't be fixed or improved on a newish Vue.  I was just simply saying that there are 2 valves that  are available in the aftermarket and that they will be slightly different than OEM so who knows what the effect would be.  Nothing worthwhile probably.

The poster said this: would I need to replace the whole brake assembly (master/slave cylinders, calipers etc)  That's not practical nor would it probably change anything.

All I'm saying is fiddling with the proportioning valves would be the only possible cheap fix.  If that takes a aftermarket replacement or tinkering with them in some fashion fine.  I know that mid 80s GM 3/4 tons and 1 tons had adjustable proportioning valves available for the rear for cheap because I had one on my 85 3/4 ton Silverado.

[ericthejet]

Have your brakes checked first for wear and tear.
Replace with good quality parts and pay the extra few bucks as it will result in better longevity from the parts.
Your brake fluid is likely dark in color and a flush and refill with freh fluid will make a bike difference.  Over time heat and moisture weaken the fluid.
Make sure you calipers are cleaned and the guides are cleaned and lubed with quality grease.  The better they sit on the guide pins the longer life you'll get from your pads.

Oh, and if you have the time go to the library and pull out a book on brakes as little has changed over the years and it will make tyou feel a bit more empowered next time around.

Good luck.

[y2chuck]

I do need to read up a lot more, I appreciate the feedback tho.  I had the brakes checked out a couple months ago since they seemed in pretty bad shape after only 45K or so and Midas told me there were fine.  Something like the front pads had 75% or so left and the rears had about 70% life left.

So it sounds like I'll end up finding better aftermarket pads/routers instead of OEM GM parts and get a proper cleaning, bleeding done.  As long as my wife has a bit more confidence in the brakes driving the little monster around, that'll be ok.

thx everybody!

[articsteve]

The rear drums can be adjusted tighter, that can make a significant difference because drums don't re-adjust themselves 100%.  Its very low cost.

[barrie1]

Does your wife know how to adjust the rear brakes by driving this vehicle. When you put the vehicle in reverse tap the brake pedal on and off as you back up which will bring them back up to the highest setting available for them. You don't have to do this every time but once a week should be plenty to keep the rears at the full height. 

[mrthompson]

Does that actually work, Barrie?  I suspect it will only work on brakes free of grime and corrosion.

The only way I know of to effectively adjust drum brakes is to manually adjust them...i.e. using a screw driver to turn the small 'star' wheel.  It can be a real PITA.

[barrie1]

Yes it does work as that is the design of most brakes since around 1961 when Henry Ford first installed that system on his vehicles. Yes if it is heavily corroded you may have a problem but quite often it will still work even thru the crud buildup on the parts. I do this about once a week just to keep them working and crud free. Same as my emergency brake I use it quite often every week but only for short stops. in this weather. On some vehicles the emergency brake is the adjuster, usually some of the 4 whl disc ones.     

[mrthompson]

Even though both vehicles have slushboxes, I use the e-brake regularly....especially when parking on an incline. 

[barrie1]

Wise person as when they seize you usually have to change out the rear cables and sometimes the adjusters as well. Bring around $200.00 to $300.00 with you at that time. Use it once a week all year round and save the money and have safer brakes as well.