Topic: What's a new car REALLY worth?

[Panzer]

Yep….Wiffy’s base awd car the Impreza Sport Wagon was $28k out the door.

Back in February 2005, my '05 Impreza sedan came in at exactly $30K out the door but with a spoiler and rustproofing as options, AND 2.8% financing for the whole amount.  But I did manage to trade my old car ('94 Firefly sedan, 217,000 kms) for the spoiler though (the dealer wanted $970 for that spoiler, ugh!).

Battery and tire levy??  I haven't seen those fees in a while and they sure weren't on my bill of sale.  I guess it varies from province to province (I'm from Ontario).

[wing]

I agree with John, mark the price as the price and add tax that is all.

When I go to Future Shop, It's not $299 for a TV + $50 freight + $20 admin etc.  It's $299 + taxes

Even the domestics do it, they ALL do it.  The CTS I priced out was $35,555 + $1395 freight

IMO, by having that seperate you are agreeing it is a negotiable item.  So scrap it.  Why not just say the car is $36950 + taxes would that be so hard?

[The Mighty Duck]

It's almost impossible to end up paying less than $5.5k/year to own a used vehicle unless you buy a real piece of junk, don't insure it for collision or comprehensive, and end up being lucky enough not to end up with major repairs.

Um....

For my car, paid $9500.  Still worth between $8-9k 18 months later.

Depreciation: $750 (we'll say)
Insurance: $1700 (one year, including collision and comprehensive)
Fuel: $700 (approximate)
Repairs/Mantinence: $500

Grand total: $3650 to run.

Now, in Ontario where insurance rates are sky high, I would be more than $5500 to run my car.

[Careener]

As I've argued for a long time..the Dell model should be applied to cars..you either go to the showroom or login from home and pay the price offered that day with the car shipped within X weeks. Showrooms then become service/demo centres. It's crap to see a price quoted in a ad that you then have to add a minimum of 20% to in order to get the car out the door. I prefer the way it works in Germany/France..the quoted price is the total including tax/shipping etc.

[The Mighty Duck]

Small groups have been arguing forever in Canada for GST & PST to be included in the posted price of an item for all goods and services: i.e. what you see on the shelf is what you pay at the register.  That's how Value Added Tax works in most of Europe (and how gas works here, for that matter).

There's a lot of opposition to this from the business community, however, because it makes their prices look higher.  Stupid, imo, as any consumer with half a brain cell knows prices have not changed...

An unfortunate effect of this kind of legislation might be higher prices, though: the item that costs $7.67 with tax might become an even $8...

[AVToller]

I'm one of the people who has argued for years (to no avail I might add) to use the VAT system of listed price being the final price. <sigh> I'm afraid it will never happen in Canada. 

[sterling]

There's a lot of opposition to this from the business community, however, because it makes their prices look higher.  Stupid, imo, as any consumer with half a brain cell knows prices have not changed...

I guess the obvious response would be that half a brain should be all that's required to calculate the tax. 

Considering that different provinces have differing sales tax, gas tax, etc., think of the confusion on a forum like this: Joe from Ontario will tell everybody he got a price of $22500; Bill from Alberta will say Joe is getting ripped off because his price was only $21000; Joe will bemoan the unfairness of it all and organize a national petition to equalize car prices across the country.

Now is that what we all want? 

[y2chuck]

I don't think it'll ever change.  Low advertised prices bring people in to the showrooms.  I remember buying my first brand new car (1995 Neon) when I was 18.  12,999 ended up be about 22,000 when it was all said and done.

Buying a car is like getting a mortage nowadays.

[jww]

I just finished a deal on a new 06 Sonata GLS LX. It took about 4 days to get to the point where we wanted to be, but once we sat down with the right person, and got up to leave, we got good disclosure. They showed me invoice, and I told them what I was willing to pay - adding that I would take one of the 3 cars currently in their inventory if we did the deal we wanted or we walk - which we actually did when suddenly the rep pulled in one of the approvers and then we started negotiating with the person who approved the deals. Essentially that's what you want - cut through the crud and get the decision maker at the table.

In the end, I got $750 above invoice, with PDI absorbed into the deal and a few accessories at cost. I balked at the etching fee and they promptly said the car was already done - so I said to take it off because I didn't want my vin# published for all to see - suddenly that cost went away as well. Anyway - there was no arguing, just a very business-like negotiation which in the end I am happy with. However, I found that unless you are dealing with a decision maker you will be strung along with every bit of tomfoolery they can throw at you.

BTW - I consider a block heater mandatory for much of Canada with the exception of BC. I can't tell you how many times on a frigid Ottawa morning I have just turned the crank and pulled away while more than one neighbor is unable to start because of the cold.

jww

[wing]

Which dealer did you buy from?  Sounds like West Ottawa.

[toolatecrew]

Sterling makes a good point on TAXES.

The MSRP would be different in Pei and NB and that would be a mess.

However Freight is another story . You AVE to pay it, its the same EVERYWHERE so why is it not included in the price of the car? Unless you are ording mailorder having stuff delivered to your door how many products are priced "plus freight/shipping".

The car has already been SHIPPED. Its a marketing trick to present lower advertised prices. Its also a nice little tool to protect any profit built into freight or PDI .  The car is 20K we can negotiate that You want a 2% discount ..? OK 2% off but Freight and PDI are on top of that at $1500.

If the all in price was 21500 and you asked for a 2% discount your discount would be more. Especially in the case of PDI where there is clearly profit for the dealership keeping it as a separate charge to avoid erosion of that profit is smart business. Its just a pain for consumers.

[sterling]

I don't know the details for Canada, but like most things I assume it just follows the U.S where the separating out of the freight charge was mandated by the federal government as part of the  legislation (Monroney Act) that made MSRP stickers law.

http://www.usdoj.gov/civil/ocl/monograph/aida.htm

The price without shipping bit is an invention of the non-big three car makers. GM, DC, and Ford all include freight in the total MSRP. It is ridiculous that Toyota makes you select whether you want to see the price with freight included. As was mentioned, it is the same everywhere so who wouldn't want it included?