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Author Topic: What's a new car REALLY worth?  (Read 4396 times)

Offline 84im

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What's a new car REALLY worth?
« on: January 01, 2006, 08:20:08 pm »
Sometime in 2006 I'd like to buy my wife a car.  So, I've been pricing new cars, and I've come to one big conclusion;  the price you start with is nowhere near the price you end with. :P
Case in point;  Toyota Yaris 4 Door RS
MSRP                  $18,815
lowering springs  $514 (okay, I could do without these, but.. ;D
All season mats   $82
Freight & PDI      $1,010
battery levy        $5
AC tax                $100
Block heater       $154  mandatory...needed in the lower mainland  ???
Tire levy             $15
GST                   $1,448.66
PST                   $1,447.26

Total                 $23,591.02  getting very close to $5,000 more than the MSRP (that's very close to a 25% increase)

I recently figured out the full costs for a 2006 MX 5 (Miata) and it came to just over $40,000  :o :o :o
No wonder used cars are in high demand   :banghead: :bow: :surrend:
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Offline russ_acosta

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 09:04:44 pm »
Quote from: 84im on January 01, 2006, 08:20:08 pm
Sometime in 2006 I'd like to buy my wife a car.  So, I've been pricing new cars, and I've come to one big conclusion;  the price you start with is nowhere near the price you end with. :P
Case in point;  Toyota Yaris 4 Door RS
MSRP                  $18,815
lowering springs  $514 (okay, I could do without these, but.. ;D
All season mats   $82
Freight & PDI      $1,010
battery levy        $5
AC tax                $100
Block heater       $154  mandatory...needed in the lower mainland  ???
Tire levy             $15
GST                   $1,448.66
PST                   $1,447.26

Total                 $23,591.02  getting very close to $5,000 more than the MSRP (that's very close to a 25% increase)

I recently figured out the full costs for a 2006 MX 5 (Miata) and it came to just over $40,000  :o :o :o
No wonder used cars are in high demand   :banghead: :bow: :surrend:


$23K+ on the road for a yaris?  i can't beleive it, but i see the figures.
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Offline Snowman

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 09:10:23 pm »
Yep….Wiffy’s base awd car the Impreza Sport Wagon was $28k out the door.
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Offline AVToller

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2006, 01:16:09 am »
Mandatory block heater?? I certainly don't have one in my Yaris. What stealership dealership did you go to in the Lower Mainland?  ??? :-X
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Offline 84im

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2006, 03:01:36 am »
Went to Toyota.ca
I'm sure when I checked on they Yaris, a while back,  there was no mention of block heaters, but there is today.
Ross, I take it you didn't have to pay for a block heater?
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Offline paulk

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2006, 03:25:02 am »
The cost is not quite that bad if you look at the numbers on a cash flow basis.  You're not "spending" $23.5k when you buy the Yaris, since part of that is an asset that you're acquiring.  Do the accounting with a five year window, with a sale at the end of those five years, including estimated depreciation and all costs (fuel, maintenance, insurance, etc.) and the Yaris costs about $7.5k per year.  That's the real cost of purchasing and owning the vehicle.  The upfront price you pay is almost meaningless in practical terms, except in the sense that pricier vehicles tend to depreciate faster, are more expensive to insure, and you lose more in tax when you buy them.

Because the Yaris will depreciate so slowly, is good on gas, and isn't that expensive to insure, it's more competitive with used vehicles than you might think.  It's almost impossible to end up paying less than $5.5k/year to own a used vehicle unless you buy a real piece of junk, don't insure it for collision or comprehensive, and end up being lucky enough not to end up with major repairs.
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Offline safristi

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2006, 08:45:05 am »
WOW thos $$$$ NUMBERS are enuf ta take me over ta the "BICYCLE" Thread........CanadianBIKER.com  ?...?    :P   Wing bump  Wing?............... :rofl2:
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Offline AVToller

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2006, 10:27:02 am »
Quote from: 84im on January 02, 2006, 03:01:36 am
Went to Toyota.ca
I'm sure when I checked on they Yaris, a while back,  there was no mention of block heaters, but there is today.
Ross, I take it you didn't have to pay for a block heater?

Of course I didn't pay for one! I just went to toyota.ca and priced a Yaris to my specs. Yes there is a block heater AVAILABLE for $147 (ouch), but I don't see it as being "mandatory" in any way.  ???

Edit: BTW, you looked up the price in the accessory section. If you want the actual pricing, try "price your Toyota".  ;D
« Last Edit: January 02, 2006, 11:46:59 am by AVToller »
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Offline safristi

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2006, 10:42:17 am »
WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT....NON?................. :-\
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sterling

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 12:27:19 pm »
I believe he meant that he considered it mandatory to get, not that the dealer made it mandatory.
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Offline 84im

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 04:49:12 pm »
Okay, I went back to Toyota.ca and priced the Yaris again.  This time the mandatory block heater did not show up for B.C., but it DID show up when I put in 'Alberta'.  Yesterday I did a print out for the Yaris, using B.C., and the mandatory block heater showed up.  Very strange  ???
Even though the Yaris ends up being more than I thought it would be, I have to agree that it's probably the best new car on the market, when you consider price, excellent reliability, low operating costs and high resale value....at least until the new Honda Fit arrives this spring.
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Offline AVToller

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 05:27:49 pm »
I tend to agree with you, but then I'm highly biased.  ;D  I hope that the Fit is even better as I would like to see a greater shift toward fuel efficient, small, fun cars. I wouldn't mind owning the second best small car in Canada.  ;D

BTW, about the title question? A new car is worth what a person is willing to pay for it.
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Offline Seafoam

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 06:13:27 pm »
Quote from: 84im on January 01, 2006, 08:20:08 pm
Sometime in 2006 I'd like to buy my wife a car.  So, I've been pricing new cars, and I've come to one big conclusion;  the price you start with is nowhere near the price you end with. :P
Case in point;  Toyota Yaris 4 Door RS
MSRP                  $18,815
lowering springs  $514 (okay, I could do without these, but.. ;D
All season mats   $82
Freight & PDI      $1,010
battery levy        $5
AC tax                $100
Block heater       $154  mandatory...needed in the lower mainland  ???
Tire levy             $15
GST                   $1,448.66
PST                   $1,447.26

Total                 $23,591.02  getting very close to $5,000 more than the MSRP (that's very close to a 25% increase)

I recently figured out the full costs for a 2006 MX 5 (Miata) and it came to just over $40,000  :o :o :o
No wonder used cars are in high demand   :banghead: :bow: :surrend:


How did you figure out the MX 5 cost? It must be for the most expensive model the GT right? because a base miata is 28000 not much more than mine was in 99. I'm looking at getting a new miata very well equipped for that price excluding a/c.

Andrew
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Offline johngenx

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 10:30:59 pm »
I am so friggin' tired of the price not being the price.  Makes me just forget EVER buying a new car.  By the time the maker adds all their crap and then the dealer tacks on another $5K in special crappola, I'm just sick of it.

Freight and PDI?  Stop.
Admin fees? Stop.
All that other scamming $hit they "install" ahead of time?  Rustproofing, etching, yadda-friggin'-yadda?  Stop.
No block heater?  It's CANADA ya morons.  No one should be selling a car here without one.
Taxes they can't help, that's the gubberment's fault.

Next thing ya know I'll be driving away in my new car, slam into a fence and the dealer will say "Ah, we didn't know YA WANTED BRAKES?"
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Offline AVToller

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 11:18:34 pm »
Sorry John, but I live in Canada too, and I have NEVER had any reason to need or want a block heater. My Golf was sent down from Prince George and did have a block heater, but in 6 years, I was never tempted to even try to use it. BTW, I was not charged for it.

Toyota (in BC at least) does not allow dealers to charge an "administration fee".

My Subaru had some of the garbage added (e.g. "pin stripes"). They wanted me to pay. I said "remove it or get me another car without it." No charge!

Freight & PDI - that should be included in the MSRP in my opinion.
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Offline 84im

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2006, 12:35:29 am »
Redroadster, I priced the MX 5 as I would buy it:
GS model for the handling mods 
(ABS, DSC, Sport suspension, 6 speed, LSD)   $30,995
Air conditioning                                          $1,000
Hard top                                                    $1,815
Floor mats                                                  $64.46
PST                                                           $2,371.21
GST                                                           $2,371,21
Freight & PDE                                              $1,195

Total                                                          $39,979.18
If you add air tax ,and tire/battery
levies you would be just over $40,000.   I could do without the air con, but I really like having a hard top for my 1990 Miata. 


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mdxtasy

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2006, 12:38:54 am »
Quote from: AVToller on January 02, 2006, 11:18:34 pm
Sorry John, but I live in Canada too, and I have NEVER had any reason to need or want a block heater. My Golf was sent down from Prince George and did have a block heater, but in 6 years, I was never tempted to even try to use it. BTW, I was not charged for it.

A good Alberta winter makes the block heater a very nice touch.  Giving the car a chance to start by trying to keep the oil somewhat liquid is great in the winters.  The added benefit (not only does the car start) but the heat might come in quicker too.  I had my block heater included in the standard features....but I'm sure I paid for it somewhere. 
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sterling

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2006, 12:54:08 am »
Why would it be that typically only the dreaded domestics include freight in their MSRP (and don't charge for PDI) and provide block heaters a standard equipment?
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mdxtasy

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2006, 12:56:23 am »
Quote from: Sterling on January 03, 2006, 12:54:08 am
Why would it be that typically only the dreaded domestics include freight in their MSRP (and don't charge for PDI) and provide block heaters a standard equipment?

Because when they're rolled in.....those costs can be offset by the rebates?   :rofl:
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Offline Trainman

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Re: What's a new car REALLY worth?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2006, 01:38:24 am »
When we bought our Sienna, the block heater was optional.  We took it as we live in the southern interior and have seen winter temps as low as -40, even getting to -10 to -15 in the attached garage where both vehicles sit.  Hardly ever use it but nice to know it is there.

If I remember correctly, our $29,900 Sienna rolled out the door at $37,000 give or take.  We added window tinting, and a couple of other things I can’t remember right now (but no “rust proofing” or ScotchGuard).

I actually liked the Access Toyota pricing idea, give me a price and if I am happy with it and feel it is reasonable, I will buy.  If I think the price is out of line for the vehicle, then I go buy something else.  It does put quite a bit of the onus on the buyer in making sure the price is in line.
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