Author Topic: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i  (Read 10731 times)

Offline 84im

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #40 on: December 22, 2005, 08:09:46 pm »
On-line hug coming at 5:07....damn, missed it. :drool:
1997 track/street Miata - I need a turbo!

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2005, 12:07:02 am »
Is it over yet? 

I am always amused by the residents who have the same old song and dance.

My favorites:

Those lower end BMW's are not real BMW's...they're a poseur BMW.
People who buy these low end BMW's are badge whores.
The small engines in the low end BMW's don't make enough power.
BMW's are not good value buys.


Thanks for the chuckles. 

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2005, 03:19:06 am »
Anyone know what Nike makes?  Shoes?  Clothes?  None of it.  All their products are made by third-party firms in some faraway nation.  Nike makes "brand image."

And guess what?  Consumers have bought into this "new age" marketing, where the image and the logo is more important than the product itself.  Nike has no staff that actually make shoes.  Nike makes commercials and pays Jordan and guys like that.

BMW built a reputation and created a brand and a known logo.  Personally, I wouldn't buy a 323 just because of the Roundel, but if BMW can score customers because of it, well, that's the 21st Century of business.  The trick is to KEEP them as customers.  Get them to buy again, and maybe move up to the profit-laden models because your entry level model blew them away.

Imagine yourself as a BMW exec.  You're in a meeting talking about sales growth and how everyone is sick of Acura, Lexus, Infiniti, Subaru, Audi, Mazda, Honda and others stealing those important entry-level customers.  Do you say:

"Well, I'm sick of people buying our cars that are not the true die-hards anyway.  Screw 'em.  Let 'em buy a C230 or IS or ES or whatever."

Sure. I'd say...

"Hey, we're friggin' BMW!  Our logo MEANS something, and we need to get people in the seats.  We need a way for folks to experience our "way of thinking" and turn them into BMW-philes."

And don't think margins aren't bad on $35-45K cars.  Beats the crap out of the thin bucks a Yaris offers.  But, lots of Yaris customers also own a Camry or Tundra or...

So, we BMW product guys drop some gear, find an engine that's fun and smooth, but won't steal 325 or 330 customers, and work out a price that can be advertised as Lexus-matching or beating.  A REAL car for $35K?  You bet!  We'll make some options available, as we make good money on those and maybe even move a 325 out the door thanks to the 323 getting close with goodies.

There will always be customers that buy a BMW just because it's a BMW.  I doubt that will ever change, and BMW doesn't mind one little bit.  One good thing about it is that BMW seems to be offering superb value in the whole 3-series line thanks to intense competition.  Also, those folks that lease it and can't really buy it out at the end, turn it back in and guys like me have a great source of sweet 3-4 year old used buys.

There is one more point I want to belabour, and because I can type fast, I will.  (the fact that I can type fast is surprising, but that's my little secret)  Anyway, my point is...

Why does not overspending make you a "poseur."  Because someone who didn't want to/can't afford the lease payment on a 330Ci means they can't appreciate a BMW for it's driving capability?  So often cars like the 323 are run down because the don't have the power or equipment of the higher models.  So what?  Let me explain using PCA members...

Some of the PCA guys (Porsche Club) are not rich.  Surprised?  Some don't have much money at all!  But, so what?  They come out with an old 914 and they LOVE their Porsche.  Just because they don't have a 911TT with X50, who cares?  Any of the 914-4's can be outgunned by a Yaris AT dragging a house trailer!  But, those 914's are still fun.  Just because you see someone driving a 323, don't think they didn't buy it because of the way it drove, as well as the logo.  I suspect many of those cars are sold because people felt "right" during the test drive.  The price in the ad got them in, and the Roundel got them serious, but I bet the drive seals the deal on many of those cars.

Now, there is "intended use."  SUV guys get run down because they don't off-road.  They're called poseurs.  What about BMW?  What are they designed for?  Are these track cars?  No.  No non-M BMW was ever meant to see a race course.  All BMW models are designed to be stylish, comfortable cars that offer excellent handling and safety.  How many of you are pushing your car to it's limits everyday?  If you are, you should go to jail.  No kidding.  The reality of life is that even in the hands of an enthusiast, a BMW is rarely pushed hard.  We extract our fun when we can, but it's not as often as we would like.

I think the posters that run the 323 down just plain don't like that the "masses" are shopping a once-exclusive German car brand.  But, in the ROTW (rest of the world) BMW, Mercedes and Audi have offered quite inexpensive models for most of their history.  In Germany, an A180 has no effect on the prestige an SL65 carries.  We need to get over it, stop being so stupid about "poseurs" and start having fun with cars again.  Take a page from bikers.  "It's not what you ride, just as long as you ride..."
No place I'd rather be...

Offline tpl

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2005, 05:37:33 am »
"Where are we now?  BMW knows that it HAS TO HAVE a $35K-ish sedan.  They have NO choice.  If they're going to bring young-ish buyers into the BMW-fold, they have to have a car that leases with a small down for about $500-600 a month.  They don't care what WE think about it as it's the fact of the market.  Back in 1989, BMW's image was untarnished and they could charge $35K in 1989 dollars for a 3-series.  Those days are gone.
"
I agree JGX   but obviously BMW does  not follow your reasoning or we would have the 1-series hatch with the bigger engine and some wild colours ( like some of the M cars USED to have) as the drive-to-work-on- weekdays-and-to-the-track-on-Sunday car that people could afford.

I have a 330 (bought not leased) and as I intend to retire soon I am not sure I'd be prepared to buy another 330/325 at $50k+  so a 323 is appealing.....however, A 1-series hatch is more appealing still....but as you also point out... a cream puff  3yr old CPO e90 might be the best deal of all.

« Last Edit: December 23, 2005, 05:42:43 am by tpl »
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Offline Snowman

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2005, 05:59:52 am »
You people are talking BMW from an enthusiast prospective and we are the minority. How many new 3-Series BMW’s are sold with automatics? Long gone are the days of buying cars with passion from the general masses.

People these days want image and that is why BMW is targeting the affordable $35k market. When the 1 Series arrives to North America will send BMW further down market. My dream car is a 5 Series…..I am still dreaming.

Offline tpl

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2005, 07:34:12 am »
A cpo 530i  6 spd would do me as well.... but I suspect that a) manual 530s are as rare as hens teeth and b) a cpo one would still be expensive

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2005, 08:33:58 am »
I agree JGX   but obviously BMW does  not follow your reasoning or we would have the 1-series hatch with the bigger engine and some wild colours ( like some of the M cars USED to have) as the drive-to-work-on- weekdays-and-to-the-track-on-Sunday car that people could afford.

Oh, they've agonized over it.  You know it!  They remember the ti flop, have watched the CL230's slow sales, and notice that while some "premium" brands have entry level hatches on this side of the pond, Lexus and Infiniti do not.  Lexus had the SportCross, and it didn't do well either.  (price might have been a factor there!)

BMW is sure to have the B200 under a microscope.  Is Mercedes attracting new customers or losing C-Class sales?  Have they got enough product and price separation between the B and the C?  Do people even see the value of paying for a fairly expensive Mercedes-branded mini-mini-van?

The $35K 323 is the safe route.  Traditional 3-box 3-series sedan with The Roundel for an aggressive starting price.  Makes sense to put that product into place and wait and see on the mini-mini-van and other stuff.

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2005, 08:42:44 am »
Long gone are the days of buying cars with passion from the general masses.

Roads are congested and people spend so much time either sitting or in bumper to bumper door handle to door handle traffic, who cares?  Also, the new car is a significant investment and people aren't as keen to "give something wonky a try."  Insurance companies will beat down anyone under 45 and over 46 that has one speeding ticket in the their lives and punish owners of performance cars with premiums that look like mortgage payments on a Palm Springs condo.

People have also grown fat and lazy.  Think you could sell an MGB or Triumph TR today?  Who would FIT in it?  The other day I overheard a young family thinking about replacing their mini-van with a B200.  They were in the showroom and didn't like the fact that the B didn't have power rear sliding doors.  They would have to actually open and close the door for their littlest one.  Oh, the effort!

Maybe the Miata would once again be a smash hit if they offered a "plus size" version with power operated doors...

Offline 84im

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2005, 01:14:13 pm »
Hey, BMW has a two door hatchback.  It's called a Mini  ;D

Offline Driver

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2005, 05:33:42 pm »
Hey, BMW has a two door hatchback.  It's called a Mini  ;D

I agree, IMO the Mini is a major reason as well not to bring the 1 series this early in the game.  As john said, it's a wait-and-see for BMW whether the A3 and the B class gets mass appeal and brings in new customers, as opposed to transfers (i.e. from A4 and C class)

If the Mini and 1 series is so close in price, then BMW runs the risk of Mini customers just moving the BMW brand... that won't help revenue nor marketshare at all.

Offline tpl

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2005, 05:50:18 pm »
I  must admit a mini tempts me too.  Only need two seats so i dont care about room in the back.  I am only 6ft but....lets say well over 240lbs and getting stiffer as I get older.... But again I learnt to drive in a rather past its best 850 mini.

The mini is a different car from a 3 series or 1 series.   front wheel drive for one. A 1 series may lose out on interior space with the rear wheel drive but thats ok with me.   


I wonder if they would bring in the 1 series diesel as a 2007 when our fuel is clean and market as the super efficient car that is also a bmw....probably would not work as the USA would not want it

Offline 84im

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2005, 07:20:36 pm »
We (my wife and I) are also considering a new Mini Cooper S sometime during the 2006 year.  I'm also a past Mini owner.....a white 1967 Mini 850.  The big difference is, I bought mine in 1968.  It was only one year old when I purchased it, and under $1000.  Those were the days....mind you, the hamburger joint I worked at while going to high school, paid a $1.00 per hour (and all the burgers I could eat when the boss wasn't looking).   :hurl:

Offline johngenx

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2005, 11:52:47 am »
So it took 1000 hours of McSlavery to earn enough for a use Mini?  Today, the local BK is paying $11/hour (according to the sign they have despreating pleading for someone to apply) so 1000 hours of fast-food work would amount to $11,000.  Jeez, you can't buy a used Mini for $11,000 (today's Mini is not mini-priced) but $11K buys a pretty sweet used car.

Becareful of wearing rose-coloured glasses concerning the 60's...

Offline safristi

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2005, 11:59:05 am »
Oh I dunno Like it Wuz cool and like groovy MAN.......I'm gonna dance at yer wedding eh....... :'(
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline 84im

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2005, 12:57:44 pm »
No rose coloured glasses on me.   Still, I'd rather be a teenager back then, then now. O0

Offline airbalancer

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2005, 04:03:18 pm »
No rose coloured glasses on me.   Still, I'd rather be a teenager back then, then now. O0
I had a gray tint in my glasses back then
« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 10:18:13 pm by airbalancer »

Offline AVToller

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2005, 04:36:18 pm »
No rose coloured glasses on me.   Still, I'd rather be a teenager back then, then now. O0

 :iagree: We (generalized) had it really easy being teens in the '60s compared to now. I certainly would not want to face being a teen today.  :P :surrend: :shake: :run:
Retired, married, and loving it
Ross

Offline The Mighty Duck

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2005, 12:11:51 am »
Thanks guys.  :)

Offline AVToller

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #58 on: December 25, 2005, 12:46:29 am »
Well Demo, it's better than giving you the old Monty Python crap about how hard we had it when we were young and how easy you kids have it now. Generally speaking, it just ain't so. Sorry about that!  :o ;D

Offline safristi

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Re: CD Article: 2006 BMW 323i
« Reply #59 on: December 25, 2005, 07:49:45 am »
How "HARD" DID ya 'AV it toller..... ??? ::).............................................Gumby_like OR man o'steel :rofl:
   middle of the road ????.....in a shoe box.....???......driftin' ta school in 30 foot slides.....!!!!....well a nice side_split wif a pool and a deck...man it was ruff...... :run: