Topic: Bio Diesel... A Saving Technology?

[Zoo]

I was thinking the other day that bio-diesel could be a great fuel in the future. Just think of a bio-diesel hybrid. Lots of torque and a re-newable fuel source. New cataytic technolgies will be able to scrub the Nox emiisions and soot. Anyone else see a future in this? Sure, bio-diesel isn't cheap; but the cheap sources of crude oil are slowly drying up leaving places like our tar sands in Alberta which aren't cheap to get at and aren't the best for the environment either.

[mrthompson]

The idealist in me loves the idea of biodiesel, but the realist causes me to doubt that we will take full advantage of the potential it offers.

There have a been a few threads on the subject in the past year. 

[Snowman]

  Not this again….there isn’t enough Bio on the planet to fuel a significant percentage of the cars to make a positive impact. More importantly we would be displacing good farm land which is needed to produce food. nothing more than a vote buying tactic.

[safristi]

Yup that DOG don't hunt it's just hungry all the time.......

[village]

Not this again….there isn’t enough Bio on the planet to fuel a significant percentage of the cars to make a positive impact. More importantly we would be displacing good farm land which is needed to produce food. nothing more than a vote buying tactic.

Algae based bio may, at some point be capable of of replacing a good portion of drilled oil.  But I think it's a wasted path of research in the end.

We already have our global answer to fossil fuels in electricity.  All that needs to be determined is how it's generated and that can be whatever form is locally viable.  Nuclear, coal, hydro, solar, wind etc. etc... Creating electricity is really not a problem.

My VCR, TV, Computer, Lawn Mower, Radio, Shaver, Baseboard heating, lighting, drier, washing machine, fridge, stove, hot tub ...  absolutely everything else I have runs on electricity.  Why am I still required to pump gasoline into gas tanks for a 60 minutes of driving daily.

I honestly don't understand this desire for alternative fuels in cars.  Who cares, make them electric and worry about generating enough electricity to support it all. 

[The Mighty Duck]

Because fuels are mobile...  plug-in hybrids exist (and get about 250 mpg), but they're not practical yet...

Now, if you could develop such a car that would charge fully into ~5 minutes, you'd be on to something.

[Zoo]

Too bad GM killed their EV1 project then. It seems everyone is either doing hybrids or fuel cell/hydrogen research. I guess the breakthroughs from this research would benefit future electric cars (e.g. better batteries, more efficient electric motors etc).

[Snowman]

“Creating electricity is really not a problem.”
Something needs to turn the shaft, that is the problem.

[village]

Because fuels are mobile... plug-in hybrids exist (and get about 250 mpg), but they're not practical yet...

Now, if you could develop such a car that would charge fully into ~5 minutes, you'd be on to something.

Aye, there are still issues with electricity.  Quick charge/~5 minutes being one of them.  But I don't see how it's not mobile.  Infrastructure is mostly there.  Granted it would take upgrading for handling the additional load, but the ground work is laid. 

“Creating electricity is really not a problem.”
Something needs to turn the shaft, that is the problem.

  Not following ya.

Hybrids are a step in the right direction, and perhaps the first step towards a completely electric vehicles.  I believe 'mods' exist for the Prius to run it completely off battery and plug it into the wall to recharge.  For 90% of my driving of 60km daily to and from work.  This would work fine.  And the other 10% just throw a switch and turn on the old relic gas motor when I need to do some highway cruisin.

It is a shame about the EV1 platform.  I thought the concept was great, and was a likely future for cars.

[Traum]

With current battery technology, electric-powered vehicles are impractical.

Case in point: I was debating in early summer whether I should buy an electric bicycle or a gas-powered scooter. The tree hugger in me wants to get the electric bicycle. But the thing only does 30kph on a full charge, and the battery is only good for 30km to 40km for each 5 to 8 hour charge. If I have a means to plug it in at work, the whole thing may work out. Otherwise, good luck trying to paddle a 70kg bicycle. On hills.

And what if I need to go to the mall or something? Where can I find an outlet to charge the damn thing? And I am supposed to stay for 2 hours at a time because my electric bicycle hasn't been charged up yet?

The scooter, on the other hand, get 100+ mpg, and each tank is good for 180km to 200km. Each fill-up takes 5 minutes. Tops.

-Rick

[Snowman]

Because fuels are mobile... plug-in hybrids exist (and get about 250 mpg), but they're not practical yet...

Now, if you could develop such a car that would charge fully into ~5 minutes, you'd be on to something.

Aye, there are still issues with electricity.  Quick charge/~5 minutes being one of them.  But I don't see how it's not mobile.  Infrastructure is mostly there.  Granted it would take upgrading for handling the additional load, but the ground work is laid. 

“Creating electricity is really not a problem.”

.


Something needs to turn the shaft, that is the problem.

  Not following ya.

Hybrids are a step in the right direction, and perhaps the first step towards a completely electric vehicles.  I believe 'mods' exist for the Prius to run it completely off battery and plug it into the wall to recharge.  For 90% of my driving of 60km daily to and from work.  This would work fine.  And the other 10% just throw a switch and turn on the old relic gas motor when I need to do some highway cruisin.

It is a shame about the EV1 platform.  I thought the concept was great, and was a likely future for cars.

Electricity is a secondary source of energy which requires a conversion of other sources of energy, like coal, natural gas, oil, nuclear power and other natural sources, which are called primary sources. The energy sources we use to make electricity can be renewable or non-renewable, but electricity itself is neither renewable nor non-renewable.

If our electrical consumption goes up to propel automobiles so will the dependency on the primary source. I do not see an environmental benefit to electrical powered cars

[Arthur Dent]

Because fuels are mobile... plug-in hybrids exist (and get about 250 mpg), but they're not practical yet...

Now, if you could develop such a car that would charge fully into ~5 minutes, you'd be on to something.

Aye, there are still issues with electricity.  Quick charge/~5 minutes being one of them.  But I don't see how it's not mobile.  Infrastructure is mostly there.  Granted it would take upgrading for handling the additional load, but the ground work is laid. 

“Creating electricity is really not a problem.”

.


Something needs to turn the shaft, that is the problem.

  Not following ya.

Hybrids are a step in the right direction, and perhaps the first step towards a completely electric vehicles.  I believe 'mods' exist for the Prius to run it completely off battery and plug it into the wall to recharge.  For 90% of my driving of 60km daily to and from work.  This would work fine.  And the other 10% just throw a switch and turn on the old relic gas motor when I need to do some highway cruisin.

It is a shame about the EV1 platform.  I thought the concept was great, and was a likely future for cars.

Electricity is a secondary source of energy which requires a conversion of other sources of energy, like coal, natural gas, oil, nuclear power and other natural sources, which are called primary sources. The energy sources we use to make electricity can be renewable or non-renewable, but electricity itself is neither renewable nor non-renewable.

If our electrical consumption goes up to propel automobiles so will the dependency on the primary source. I do not see an environmental benefit to electrical powered cars

following those good points are some others to ponder - those batteries are filled with some of the most nasty substances possible - production and ultimately disposal of them is a problem. Especially since batteries wear out and will not (at current or forseeable tech levels) last the life time of the vehicle. Also electric cars are crap in winter climates such as ours.

[safristi]

..I'm feeling LOG-EY...who wants  ta turn mY SHAFT.......I don't think so...I'll walk HOME.....facking Ont HYDRO pervs....!!!! ..BRING BACK THE NUKES & FIRE THA" PUKES.......

[village]

Electricity is a secondary source of energy which requires a conversion of other sources of energy, like coal, natural gas, oil, nuclear power and other natural sources, which are called primary sources. The energy sources we use to make electricity can be renewable or non-renewable, but electricity itself is neither renewable nor non-renewable.

If our electrical consumption goes up to propel automobiles so will the dependency on the primary source. I do not see an environmental benefit to electrical powered cars

Yes, I understand that.  But iit is far more effecient and cleaner to put electrical generation at the plant.  The power plant itself can use whatever primary energy source is effecient for that geographic area, whether it be oil, coal, hydro etc.  The burden of pollution is then shifted away from a million ineffecient and random vehicles to a few highly effecient locations.

following those good points are some others to ponder - those batteries are filled with some of the most nasty substances possible - production and ultimately disposal of them is a problem. Especially since batteries wear out and will not (at current or forseeable tech levels) last the life time of the vehicle. Also electric cars are crap in winter climates such as ours.

Yes, batteries have their nasty side as well.  But I can take that nasty junk to a recycling centre to deal with.  Diesel/Gasoline just ends up being airborne for you and me to breath.  I think, though may be mistake simple lead acid batteries can be recycled rather well (95%+).  I'm not certain on NiCad and Lithium Ion but I see no reason why they would be less so other then the industry needs to mature.
Cold climate performance is just another road bump to be solved, biggy for us Canadian's though.

I don't see range and charge time being a big issue.  GMs EV1 was capable of 200+ MPC(Miles per charge).  Other types are easily 100+mpc.  Not perfect, but it could replace 1 of my 2 cars just to get me to and from work and going for groceries.  Until some of the more difficult, ~5 minute quick charge issues are solved. =)

Obviously, I'm not expecting everyone to just stop making gas cars.  Ultimately, I think our end state will be electric vehicles.  So stepping stones with bio-desiel, hydrogen and fuel cell tech seems unneccessary and just slows down progress.