Author Topic: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations  (Read 23483 times)

Offline 02Jetta

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2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« on: November 04, 2005, 07:07:49 am »
I guess as with all new cars I'm frustrated with the little amount of work I can do myself on my Jetta. I'm no mechanic but I used to do most of my own maintenance. Now it seems without a hoist or a special tool I can't do anything on this frikkin car. Since I bought this car in June 2002 new:
-Timing belt and water pump ($1000)
-New drivers seat because seat warmer burned a hole through it (warranty)
-Drivers side window came off the clips and fell inside the door. They knew about the defective clips but didn't want to recall them.(warranty/recall)
-2 glow plugs (did it myself) $22 each
-2 new windshields due to stress cracks (warranty but had to fight for it)
-Drivers side door latch (can't remember exact cost but pretty expensive)
-many light bulbs
-Oil pan heater cord broke took it in and they charged me over$100 to fix it because they finally put 2 and 2 together after the diagnostic machine didn't tell them what was wrong. (Winter time)
-New battery
-stabilizer bushings need changing
-pollen filters? didn't know they existed until I bought this jetta. Extra cash grab?
Don't get me wrong it is a solid car and I know cars are money pits and require maintenance for normal wear and tear but It just seems like alot of maintenance for a $27,000 non luxury, non sportscar. I also think that if they want to continue to sell these TDI's in Canada they are going to have to start putting some kind of block heater or rad hose heater in them. I don't know how many times after a 12 hour shift at work I went to start it and no go. Even plugged in at -20 to -35 celcius I have a real hard time getting it started. My wifes little Kia gas jobby would go not even plugged in!!

Any thoughts?? Anybody??

Offline AVToller

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2005, 11:16:20 am »
Your story is very similar to what I experienced with my 1994 Golf (gas) - the details are different, but the frustration the same. It was an excellent driving car, just a poor owning car. They seem to either be very good or VERY bad in reliability.
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Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 12:55:16 pm »
Modern diesel engines are not a tinkerer's backyard dream. Even diesel mechanics are not all that impressed with the complexity, ultra-high compression, and timing new diesel engines require.

Going by your list and in my experience, I'll address like this:
- Timing belts are expensive to replace. Up until '03 I believe, the Auto transmissioned ones called for timing belts to be replaced every 40K, which is ridiculous (manuals were around 96K). Buying the TDI makes no sense with that service interval. When doing the change, it's over $500 (I think I've paid $650 myself) and the water pump should be changed at the same time since it's relatively inexpensive and the labour to replace it if it does go would be the same as a timing belt. I live east of Toronto and my dealer's labour rate is $72/hr - it's much cheaper to get my car serviced there than in the GTA and many customers drive to their location for this servicing as in the GTA the charge is hovering around $1,000.
- There was an investigation and possible recall on the seat heaters in the Golf/Jetta models. I think VW would be keen to do the warranty to keep customers happy on this safety issue.
- The window regulators are a common issue and joke on these cars, with power windows "falling down". The plastic clips should be replaced with metal clips, and VW has covered this, albeit digging it's heals for far too long.
- I've replaced a glow plug and glow plug relay myself. Luckily these items are inexpensive
- No idea on the door latch. Noticed sometimes my inside handle is getting a little harder to pull than the normal weight it requires other times. The doors themselves are heavy and welded directly onto the body, which in the case of my large 3-dr Golf when 80km/h wind caught it and flug it open has never been adjustable back to it's original position. Requires re-adjustment when necessary.
- No idea on oil pan heater. I think it's fair to say when you're diagnosing anything at a dealership these days it will cost you
- New battery is a mystery to me. They're heavy-duty jobbers with insulation for cold cranking capacity, and mine's the original battery going on 5 years and 288K.
- On my next servicing I'll require my rear bushings to be replaced. Gradually, I've noticed going over bumps I'll get a banging sound and have been told the reason would be the rear bushings wearing.
- Pollen filters are on many new cars. Volkswagen was among the first with this feature in the mass market here, as many European cars come with this and customers demanded it there. Ford was also big on the pollen/allergy filter bandwagon and advertised it rather heavily a few years ago. They do have a set replacement interval, just like any filter in your home would have... otherwise there's an accumulation of matter and I would imagine mold could start if left unattended. I'm not sure if they can simply be taken out so you no longer need to worry about it or not. I would assume not, but am unsure.

Keep in mind, for much of the above the issues for Golf/Jetta/Beetles are all the same. VW produced tonnes of these vehicles, all with similar issues. They're mostly known issues.

- As for the TDI issue, it's a wonder VW can sell any diesels here. The sulphur content in North American diesel is astronomically high compared to Europe, where engines are much cleaner and can be because the fuel is largely devoid of sulphur (which causes the black smoke and the smell typically associated with diesel fuel). At higher km's - 150K+ if you use quality diesel fuel - the EGR and Mass Air Flow sensor will become clogged because of the sulphur content in our fuel and you'll notice a gradual degredation in engine power over time as this happens. This will be a few hundred to repair in itself, so if you see the signs and were thinking of trading, it would be the time...

In the cold below -27 or so you should be pouring some Stayodyne (forget the name of it, but it's spelled something like that) diesel fuel de-icer into your tank when you fill it up. Otherwise, the diesel can easily gell and literally freeze in the tank.

My TDI is kept outside (lived in Barrie and east of Toronto, ON) and has never not started - but on the coldest -30-35dC days, it sure grumbles. Remember, the glow plug indicator lamp (looks like a spring) is on your instrument cluster for a reason and you should always wait for it to go out before starting, which I'm sure you know. But what I do is actually turn the key 4-6 cycles waiting for the glow plug light to go out (about 4 seconds each time) in extreme cold before starting the engine - this way the glow plugs heat the cylinder for more time before starting. When the engine does start in extreme cold, I know it's very grumbly (I feel like I'm torturing it and it's very big-rig sounding when driving slowly) and I do often get smoke out the tailpipe at -30- for the first 5 seconds upon starting. But it's always started. I believe VW recently added accessory engine block heaters to their catalogue, so you may want to investigate that option if it's retrofitable to your Jetta. How are you 'plugging it in' now? Just an engine blanket, or what?

The bigger issue for me is how the engine warms up. You actually have to drive it, as it will not warm idling. Therefore, it's virtually impossible to defrost or de-ice the front and side windows as you would in a normal gasoline powered vehicle until you hit some speed for 5-10 minutes and the heat starts. And I don't have heated seats myself - wish I had something to burn on thru me on those mornings! I wish it had a front heating windshield.

Sounds like a pain and a lot of 'stuff' to remember, but I actually don't mind it at all. I only pour the de-icer into my tank maybe 3 times a year if I've checked the forecast and know it'll be really cold, and the other stuff I think is fairly routine outside of winter when the engine takes forever to warm up. All European cars tend to require more maintenance than domestic or Asian vehicles, but to me it's worth it.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 01:04:42 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »
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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 02:14:41 pm »
Quote
Therefore, it's virtually impossible to defrost or de-ice the front and side windows as you would in a normal gasoline powered vehicle until you hit some speed for 5-10 minutes and the heat starts.

So you have to drive 5-10 minutes before you can see out the windows?  :o

IMO, that's a significant safety shortcoming.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 02:26:37 pm »
Quote
Therefore, it's virtually impossible to defrost or de-ice the front and side windows as you would in a normal gasoline powered vehicle until you hit some speed for 5-10 minutes and the heat starts.

So you have to drive 5-10 minutes before you can see out the windows?  :o

IMO, that's a significant safety shortcoming.

I brush the windows like normal, but when there's frozen ice or after freezing rain that's turned to ice, you really have to chip it prior to driving off as it takes awhile to melt. TDI is not an urban winter vehicle solution, and is intended for people who drive longer distances anyhow. In fact, if you sit at a traffic light long enough in -35dC tempuratures you'll actually see the engine's temperature needle move off the normal mark back toward cold.

I've found the trick is to clear the windshield and front side windows and hold-off spraying windshield washer fluid onto the window as it will freeze in a spider pattern, unless there's no helping it in which case I'm forced to spray it more than normal to keep it from freezing for the first few minutes.

I don't claim to say TDI's are for everyone, and would suggest quite the opposite. If I chose to park in underground parking (which I have the option to but don't) or had a garage this wouldn't be much of an issue.

Once Winter hits, I expect the frequency of TDI posters complaining or questioning things on the forum will increase.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2005, 02:29:27 pm by sirAQUAMAN64 »

Offline dr_spock

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2005, 08:53:40 pm »
That's the joy of owning a VW.

I had to replace my battery after 3 years.
Power window went down and stayed down in the middle of winter--plastic clips failure.
Many low beam light bulbs replaced over the years.  I think because they use the low beams for DRLs.
A whole lot of check engine lights.

The pollen filter is great.  I have allergies in the summer.   I don't have watery eyes and running nose and sneezes when I'm in my VW..


sterling

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2005, 10:58:20 pm »
Quote
I don't claim to say TDI's are for everyone, and would suggest quite the opposite. If I chose to park in underground parking (which I have the option to but don't) or had a garage this wouldn't be much of an issue.

Once Winter hits, I expect the frequency of TDI posters complaining or questioning things on the forum will increase.

I think those are very interesting comments. It seems that every third post on here has somebody pining away for more diesels to be available in Canada. Perhaps they are not as well suited to the climate here as some people think.

Offline johngenx

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2005, 09:48:34 am »
I think those are very interesting comments. It seems that every third post on here has somebody pining away for more diesels to be available in Canada. Perhaps they are not as well suited to the climate here as some people think.

Just VW.  Our 98 Mercedes diesel had NO trouble whatsoever with winter running.  Glow plugs would be ready in less time than it took to buckle up and she fired without hesitation.  Now, you had to plug it in at -30C if sitting overnight, but that's true of most gas cars as well.  The MB had an excellent block heater, unlike the MORONS at VW that would sell a car in Canada without one.

With the E300, if you plugged it in, even at -30C, you'd have heat by the time you made the end of the street.  No problems making heat.
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Offline gta_driver

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2005, 10:23:26 pm »
I guess as with all new cars I'm frustrated with the little amount of work I can do myself on my Jetta. I'm no mechanic but I used to do most of my own maintenance. Now it seems without a hoist or a special tool I can't do anything on this frikkin car. Since I bought this car in June 2002 new:
-Timing belt and water pump ($1000)
-New drivers seat because seat warmer burned a hole through it (warranty)
-Drivers side window came off the clips and fell inside the door. They knew about the defective clips but didn't want to recall them.(warranty/recall)
-2 glow plugs (did it myself) $22 each
-2 new windshields due to stress cracks (warranty but had to fight for it)
-Drivers side door latch (can't remember exact cost but pretty expensive)
-many light bulbs
-Oil pan heater cord broke took it in and they charged me over$100 to fix it because they finally put 2 and 2 together after the diagnostic machine didn't tell them what was wrong. (Winter time)
-New battery
-stabilizer bushings need changing
-pollen filters? didn't know they existed until I bought this jetta. Extra cash grab?
Don't get me wrong it is a solid car and I know cars are money pits and require maintenance for normal wear and tear but It just seems like alot of maintenance for a $27,000 non luxury, non sportscar. I also think that if they want to continue to sell these TDI's in Canada they are going to have to start putting some kind of block heater or rad hose heater in them. I don't know how many times after a 12 hour shift at work I went to start it and no go. Even plugged in at -20 to -35 celcius I have a real hard time getting it started. My wifes little Kia gas jobby would go not even plugged in!!

Any thoughts?? Anybody??

I feel you, I had the some of the same issues with my '01 Golf GLS. Mine not only had a penchent for going through light bulbs but also O2 sensors (3 changed during my ownership), my alternator went at 25000KM's, my sunroof motor blew, my coolant bottle cracked, my engine drank oil from day one (which in VW speak is "normal"), I would drive 3000 Km's and my crankcase would be empty. I hated VW customer service. They always tried to find away to make VW quality issues your fault. I spent a lot of time fighting with VW to get warranty items addressed. I too was frusterated that I couldn't do my own work on the car.  I mean its supposed to be the "people's car", a simple headlight bulb change requires special tools and a degree.

But I guess this is what you get for made in Mexico cars.

In my case good riddance to the brand forever. I feel sorry for the sucker who got saddled with my car.
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Offline onearmed

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2005, 05:39:38 am »
Quote

 a simple headlight bulb change requires special tools and a degree.

But I guess this is what you get for made in Mexico cars.



I changed both headlights on my VW with no problem.  Oh and I think your model year golf was made in germany which means it doesn't matter where the VW was made, it's just shoddy parts.  :)

Offline gta_driver

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2005, 10:47:40 am »
Quote

 a simple headlight bulb change requires special tools and a degree.

But I guess this is what you get for made in Mexico cars.



I changed both headlights on my VW with no problem.  Oh and I think your model year golf was made in germany which means it doesn't matter where the VW was made, it's just shoddy parts.  :)


I looked up my VIN, it was a made in Mexico vehicle. If I had known I was buying a "German" vehicle that was made in Mexico, I would never have purchased it in the first place. The one thing that was universal among VW service advisors is that they admitted that the made in Mexico VW's all had serious problems as opposed to the made in Germany ones.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2005, 11:50:25 am »
In mid-'01 production moved from Germany to Brazil.

I change the headlights myself with no problem, and if you know me you know it must be a pretty simple affair to do so. That's only on the passenger side tho... the driver's side requires thin fingers (which my bro has) or removal of the battery.

Offline onearmed

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2005, 03:29:29 pm »
Let me add to the crappy parts list for VW whether it was made in mexico, brazil or germany.  You will have problems ( A lot of these were addressed from 2003 onwards though):

Plastic Window Clips (updated
Waterpump
Ignition Coils (updated)
Coolant Temp Sensor (updated)
MAF sensor (updated)
O2 sensors
Glow Plugs
Light bulbs

VW better learn from their mistakes.... they will lose a lot of customers.

Offline barrie1

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2005, 11:13:42 pm »
I am very surprised the Snack hasen't piped in yet regarding this vehicle as he brags just how wonderful they are. Like any vehicle they have their drawbacks unless you are able to do all of your own maintenance or repairs. I do believe they are a well built car but have certain winter issues's to overcome yet in this country.  :)

Offline mark

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2005, 09:23:26 am »
Apart from the diesel specific "attributes", VW needs to work more closely with their parts & component  suppliers on quality control.  There's only so much blame that can be passed along. 
Oil obsessed...

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2005, 10:39:58 am »
Plastic Window Clips (updated
Waterpump
Ignition Coils (updated)
Coolant Temp Sensor (updated)
MAF sensor (updated)
O2 sensors
Glow Plugs
Light bulbs

I'd only had from that list 2 glow plugs replaced (low cost), one rear tail light bulb, but many (maybe 5 sets) of front headlights in 5 yrs/290K. Also glow plug relay for me.

But my windows are manual, so they don't have the clips. Many of the other MAF and O2 are 1.8T issues I would imagine. MAF does affect high mileage TDI's when the EGR and MAF need to be cleaned out due to the high sulphur content in our diesels.

No matter, I don't think anyone would argue they need to improve their (and their supplier's) quality and durability of components and electricals. Moreover, the dealership service experience.

Offline Shnak

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2005, 04:46:04 pm »
I am very surprised the Snack hasen't piped in yet regarding this vehicle as he brags just how wonderful they are. Like any vehicle they have their drawbacks unless you are able to do all of your own maintenance or repairs. I do believe they are a well built car but have certain winter issues's to overcome yet in this country.  :)

And what would be the point in me coming here and saying that I haven't had any of those problems with my 2004 Jetta TDI? Uh?

:banghead:
« Last Edit: November 09, 2005, 03:15:11 pm by wing »

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2005, 04:50:07 pm »
Ugh, you two!  >:(

Barrie was quite complimentary I thought :)

Offline ovr50

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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2005, 04:50:42 pm »
Oh, oh.....  :-X
« Last Edit: November 08, 2005, 05:39:06 pm by ovr50 »
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Re: 2002 Jetta TDI frustrations
« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2005, 02:20:07 am »
Maybe it's timeout time?   :-X