Topic: What is wrong with Subaru?

[ovr50]

Agree with John - the Subie dealer network is one of the worst. Another poor one is Suzuki. Here in Kelowna, they are together as the same dealer - Subaru/Suzuki - lot to be desired there. 

[a4_tom]

A local Subaru/Volvo dealer has excellent reputation, since they have seperate service and sales floors. On the other hand, a local Subaru/Suzuki dealer has poor reputation. The dealer atmosphere feels like a 3rd rated used car dealer with poorly trained salespersons.

[The Mighty Duck]

Too many problems...  high prices, little brand recognition, and lack of advertising...  I had to double check that we have a Subaru dealer in town (we do).  That said, I see a few older Foresters and Outbacks around.  But they had a really strong advertisement program from Outback, didn't they?

[ovr50]

The local dealer here has a reputation of paying his ppl poorly, and being a real hard-nosed deal maker. So hard-nosed that I know of ppl who have wanted a Subie but just walked away from the dealer. Some went out of town to another dealer, others didn't buy a Subie at all. Of the new car dealers. the S/S shop is likely the worst here.

[johngenx]

I'm trying to rememeber where I read this.. "Near luxury pricing with Justy level service."

That's my line.  And I stand by it.

[AVToller]

A local Subaru/Volvo dealer has excellent reputation, since they have seperate service and sales floors. On the other hand, a local Subaru/Suzuki dealer has poor reputation. The dealer atmosphere feels like a 3rd rated used car dealer with poorly trained salespersons.

Funny you should mention that. I bought from the Subaru/Volvo dealer. The sales team at the Subaru/Suzuki dealership was, in a word, VILE. I also heard a lot of negative things about the service department there - including from one of my students who worked there!!!

[mdxtasy]

Styling - maybe....their cars aren't the most eye pleasing designs out there.  They aren't butt ugly (well, the B9 is) but the other vehicles in the lineup aren't too bad...atleast they don't copy the Accord.
 
Price - maybe.....the pricing has steadily increased over the years and now into the meat of some serious competition.  They are asking serious money for a brand doesn't carry the same weight.  Bang for buck value can now be disputed.

Financing - doubtful but I don't know the details of what they offer. 

Size - Size doesn't matter. 

Performance - no performance issues I see.  With some serious turbocharged engines...they should be good to go.

Image - probably.  Subaru has always been a quirky make....kinda like Saab.  Off beat choice for the people who knew what the Subie was.  But back then, this little niche was good for Subaru as their cars were priced more inline with their customers.  Now that they are commanding near lux prices but still offering the same economical label as they did before, I see this strategy failing like VW's idea of moving upmarket.  Why do you think Honda created Acura and Toyota created Lexus? 

Dealerships - no real personal experience....

[tpl]

John, you invented your new sig while on the BC teachers thread ?

[Snowman]

My take:

1.   Styling

•   Styling is subjective but at least Subaru is not a cookie cuttey from the mainstream, must give them credit for that.

2.   Price
•   Where can you find this kind of quality and reliability with awesome performance? I think the pricing on the LGT base MT5 is justifiable. The Impreza 2.5 TS is another example.
•   The Limited editions are too much for just leather and a roof. Not worth it IMHO.

3.   Financing
•   Like their Japanese counterparts they are in business to make money. North America is still addicted to cars form the domestics sold at a loss.

4.   Size
•   I think some additional real leg room should be designed into the SUV’s and Wagon models.

5.   Performance.
•   Self explanatory, a leader in power and awd agility.

6.   Image
•   The path to going up-scale may be a rough one and perhaps can be recified my slick marketing and perception. Too many people are hung up on being accociated with a logo and being trendy.

7.   Dealerships
•   A standard template needs to be established so that sales and service can be improved. This is a week area and requires attention.

8.   Some I think Subaru’s are for smart people…..since it is in short supply…..you know what I mean.

[Shnak]

Too many problems...  high prices, little brand recognition, and lack of advertising... 

I totally agree. Dealerships too... The Subaru dealership here in Hull is where Hyunda used to be before they had a new dealership built... the Subaru dealership showroom as space for 3 cars, and it's tight! You get in there and it feels like an Avis or Budget renting agency. Totally inappropriate for a suposedly "upscale" brand. Heck, even the Suzuki dealership is better than the Subaru dealership here! I can honestly say that the Subaru dealership is the worst of all the dealerships we have around here...

But for the cars themselves, I don't think that high prices is _that_ much of a problem IMO.. if you want to move upmarket, sure you can do it... Volvo has done it many years ago and it's working great for them now. But the problem I have with Subaru moving upmarket is that I feel parts of their vehicles isn't moving upmarket as fast as their prices... like their interior... they have always felt cheap to me. In the low-twenties Impreza, having a cheap interior because it only has to compete against the Civic, Corolla, Sentra, Mazda3, etc. and against those cars, the Impreza isn't out of line... but the Legacy, Outback and Forester, especially when loaded up a bit, they reach $40k quite easily, and that's where you get into Volvo, Audi, Lexus, BMW and even Mercedes territory. And when you get in that category, you better make sure that your car doesn't look and feel like an econobox against those upscale brands.

[tenpenny]

When I see the Mazda and M-B dealer building huge new glitzy showrooms, all I think of is more overhead.  Image is everything to some people.  Not to me.  I'm more concerned with THE CAR than I am with the dealer's building.

Our Subie dealer is in an older, smaller building.  Having space for 2 cars in the showroom is fine; a car in the showroom doesn't help me any, since I can't drive it.  The more cars they have inside, the fewer they have outside to test drive.  These guys have a good service department, and decent people to deal with.  And the cars can't be beat.

Quite frankly, I'd be happy if sales plummeted.  That way, I'd be able to get a really good deal in January.

Go ahead!  Bad mouth Subaru.  Drive sales down!  Go for it!

[Shnak]

Who's bad mouthing Subaru? And if you saw the dealership we have here, you'd say the exact same thing I am...

[Snowman]

I would rather drive to a dealership which has quality people in an old facility than a modern one filled with arse-holes. My Subaru experiences have been pleasant especially in North Bay, a converted fast-food chicken franchise that went under. We call the dealership the Chicken Barn.

The Sudbury dealership is also and MB dealer and they have changed tier attitude in the last year to a point where I now take my business there. When I picked up Rut Ro yesterday from the 98k service and O2 sensor change he was washed and cleaned inside and out.

[rx330lvr]

I love Subarus!  We bought a new Forester S in 1999.  For its size it wasn't cheap, but felt the safety and reliability issues were covered and that value was there.  My wife totalled it in March  (an X5 ran a stop sign right in front of her) and she walked away physically unscathed!!  Definitely worth it.  We loved that car and would buy another in a second but for rear seat room ( 6 ft son).  We considered a Legacy but the marginal side crash test rating from IIHS dissuaded us.  Thought about waiting several months for the Tribeca, but opted for Lexus RX330.  Different class I know, but we are sensitive to safety and reliability.  Really not much else out there. Love the RX, but expensive.  Checked out the Legacy wagon and couldn't sit comfortably behind myself.  If we were looking now, I would definitely buy Tribeca.

So to answer the question, for us, size matters, safety matters (don't mind extra $ to increase odds of safely survivng impacts).  I think Subaru is looking to the Volvo model going upmarket, but I think in the marketplace style matters most.  I actually like the look of them, especially Tribeca, but many can't stand  them.  That is the biggest problem I think.  

[Shnak]

well I agree on that... service is the #1 thing, but the service quality isn't something that you can judge just by passing in front of the dealership, or even before you buy the car... you have to experience a few oil changes or warranty repairs before you can judge the service of the dealership... and would you really buy a $40k car from a dealership that you've never done business with that looks and feels like a 2nd rate used cars dealer? I know I wouldn't... the overall dealership impression affects my purchase decision when I'm buying something that expensive...

[sparky]

The current model lineup isn't as odd-looking as the weird Subies of yore, allthough the new schnozz and the Tribeca hint of unfortunate styling excesses to come. The only time I seriously considered a Subie was in 2001. Test drove an Imprezza-based Outback, wasn't " imprezzed" by the cramped, stark interior and didn't like the price or the take-it-or-leave-it attitude of the sales guy. Haven't been back.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I'm trying to rememeber where I read this.. "Near luxury pricing with Justy level service."

That's my line.  And I stand by it.

Haha, I was thinking "hey, I read that too" and yeah, it was from Genx! Too funny.

Anywho, I think 'smart people' are in short supply as well. There is significant value to base model Imprezas, Legacies, Foresters, and even Outbacks for sure. The technology, AWD, safety, and powertrain are all first-notch. It'd be hard to lower pricing much on those units b/c they have AWD, and they might as well pack on a few options as base equipment as it probably looks like higher value when bundled. But few bother to research fully their car purchases, there's low brand awareness, and low brand consideration. People are like lemmings and tend to stick with what they hear from the pack - Honda and Toyota, Honda and Toyota. Really, pretty much everything else is second or third tier now. Mazda and Nissan have really moved up with some products, but still, the average consumer goes out to look at the safe bets.

I like the styling and overall goodness of the B9 Tribeca, the new Impreza front end, and FINALLY the exterior AND interior of the Legacy line. They butchered the update on the Forester to me tho.

For me, what kills Subaru used to be the interior plastics and very tight interior. The Impreza is dinky inside for me. The design I couldn't stand inside. However, I find the Legacy quite impressive inside - although it is playing with the big boys now, but at least I REALLY admire them fully when I see them on the road. In a subtle way, they're really sharp coming at me from behind in the fast lane, and I've always liked the wagons. Still need more rear seat room tho.

Dealerships are more scarce and smaller jobbers. Mind you, my local Suzuki-Subaru shack is renovating and looks to be seriously expanding, which will be nice. There are some new stand-alone Subie dealers in Mississauga I've seen that are quite large and fancy all things considered.

It'll be interesting if Toyota pushes them to new heights. Obvously Toyota must see some value in the brand. And to me they do have some expertise... they just need to get some traction in the mainstream!

My vote was 'other', as it seems a combination of many things. For example, 'Image' isn't really bad, but awareness is poor.

[a4_tom]

A local Subaru/Volvo dealer has excellent reputation, since they have seperate service and sales floors. On the other hand, a local Subaru/Suzuki dealer has poor reputation. The dealer atmosphere feels like a 3rd rated used car dealer with poorly trained salespersons.

Funny you should mention that. I bought from the Subaru/Volvo dealer. The sales team at the Subaru/Suzuki dealership was, in a word, VILE. I also heard a lot of negative things about the service department there - including from one of my students who worked there!!!

Everything else about that Suzuki/Subaru franchise is true.

[Bullet Blue]

There is a Subaru/Audi Dealer in Halifax. I've been there once to test drive a used Legacy way back when. I was very pleased with the service I recieved. I got the impression that they gave a no attitude. Probably would've seriously considered had my financial situation allowed me at the time. From what I can tell, the same great service is still there today as a buddy of mine test drove a used Saab 9-3 Viggen that was at the dealer about a month ago. He said that he was very impressed with the service.

[kevlar]

awd is not that important to the general public.  this makes their cars relatively expensive.  build quality appears to be behind toyota and honda.  overall,  subaru seems to be very confused with their model selection and what the public is buying.    how many wagons are there?? 8-10 variations?   i love wagons but they don't appeal to most of the buying public.  so why build so many.   also, the  styling needs to be made more main stream.  scoops on the hood are not for everyone.    b9??   blah!!  baja?  where was that bucket again??  blahhhhhhhhhhhh   i drove a wrx and loved it.  but it's design religates it to a very select crowd.   outback? forester?   which was which?   but they sell well to the family granola crowd but just keep one of them!!   the legacy  is slick but expensive.  it's in the deep end entering into audi, bmw acura, infiniti price range.  i think they need to have a civic, corolla type car to bring younger people into their world.  people who might later buy more expensive models.   oh btw subaru... start advertising!!  dealerships here in toronto are invisible.  too bad because subaru builds solid cars.