Topic: CD Article: 2006 Lexus IS 250/350

[a4_tom]

Frankly, every cars have problems since they made from piece of metal with lots of electronic and mechanical components regardless its a Toyota or a Mercedes. I just found that American media tends to overexaggreate Mercedes's "quality issues" in recent years especially CR and JD Power.

[Benhaze]

Strongly disagree with Mdxtasy. Acura TL still far better value than IS250. In the reality of Canadian winters, I feel we need to compare the TL with IS250 AWD. TL goes for about $43K versus $50K for the IS250 AWD with comparable equipment. TL is also available with a manual trans, has significantly more power and torque than the IS250. TL value is untouchable at this point.

About Johngenx comment: IS250 at $42K is less equipped than the G35X ($43K) and is not even close to either HP (204 vs 280) or torque (185 ft-lb vs 270 ft-lb). The only engines having less torque the IS250 nowadays are 4 cylinder engines (Altima's engine has 180 ft-lb and weights 200 KG less!). So if sporty driving is your thing, the IS250 isn't it. Lexus has nicer interiors than Infinitis though. Too bad Lexus forces you in expansive packages for options than even German manufacturers offers as standalone options.

For me, only the IS350 is a good value. But it is sad no manual trans or AWD system are available with this model . The dilemma is: do you go BMW for ultimate driving experience or Lexus for luxury and reliability or G35 for a mix of both? But don't forget the TL either...

[wing]

Benhaze did you read my IS300 vs IS250 article in the blogs?  I mentioned similar points as you, it's odd Lexus went with lower power.

[inco]

Frankly, every cars have problems since they made from piece of metal with lots of electronic and mechanical components regardless its a Toyota or a Mercedes. I just found that American media tends to overexaggreate Mercedes's "quality issues" in recent years especially CR and JD Power.

I'm not so sure that they are. I think they are actually on to something that we all need to watch out for and consider.

Cars are becoming 'systems oriented' with more and more electronics being built in to do more and more things that are not really needed, but people feel they want.

The problem is that the least friendly environment to operate these things is the car.Cars are exposed to so much change that it's difficult to ensure that things will last and therein lies a big service, read repair bill, for owners down the road. Mercedes is faced with this dilemma now. Who wants a used Benz?

Making cars too complex, while nice to own and be coddled, will come back to haunt everyone down the road when you have to replace things,er systems. ECM's costing $2,000 or more will be more and more frequent.

I'm all for progress, but I want reliability too and for that reason I don't look at keeping a car beyond four years. The hassle and economics don't make it a sound venture. Warranty - no worry, no warranty - worry. 

[tpl]

   To make it worse...as the electronic components go to lower volatges and power  1.8v or 3.3v now the car problems with wiring and especialliy connectors in damp salty atmosphere get worse and worse. Then the low voltage of the modern electronics measn that each module has to do its own voltage regulation to gaurd against someone putting booster cables in the wrong place.   I thought MB were on the right track with 42V electrics, lower currents ( easier connectors and thinner wiring)  more use of communications busses so that there was no power on most of the wiring. probably easier, once you have a power semiconductor that can switch 42 volts to make it safe aginst much higher surges.   But the safety people seem to have quashed that in euroland for now.

[safristi]

..SHOCKING!!!! what about the BIG JOLTS err VOLTS ,AMPS whatever!!! inna HYBRIDS........I'm waiting waiting...WHY ARE WE WAITING...fer a self actuating CUP HOLDER...I just hate having ta push that button....I'm a BUSY MAN....3 posts worth damn....!!!!!

[Benhaze]

Wing,

I just read your article. Very well done! And you can bet the incremental weight of the AWD is not making spirited driving any better. It is also funny when to see Toyota installing what is basically the Avalon engine (269HP/246 ft-lb) in the new RAV4 and turn their little SUV into a Hot Rod that can probably eat up an IS250 at a stop light.

I guess the IS250 is aimed at the base model of the Mercedes C Series, not BMW. Similar power/torque/pricing with focus on comfort. It is a let down for the previous IS300 owners but they weren't enough of them for Lexus.

[wing]

Thanks, my first venture into really writing any type of artcile

[johngenx]

I was at the MB dealer the other day picking up some filters.  I spied a 2006 C280 4-matic in the showroom and went to have a peek.

$47,000 is the least expensive 4-matic equipped Mercedes?  Suddenly, the IS250AWD looks priced VERY well.  Personally, among the AWD crowd of the IS250, C280, 325ix Legacy GT and G35X, I would narrow my list to the Subaru for the wagon body and the Lexus for it's superb quality.  I think the Mercedes is overpriced, the G35X has power but is off the mark compared to the IS250 when it comes to materials and dealer support.  The BMW is a nice piece, but I still like the Lexus better, and the BMW is more moolah too.  When the BMW went out of warranty, I'd have a nagging voice in the back of my head.  When the Lexus went off warranty, I'd barely notice or care.

The Subaru offers great value with tons of go-power, AWD, and the much-desired-by-me wagon body, but the dealers are out of their league when it comes to selling against Lexus.

[Benhaze]

johngenx,

   You have to be careful to compare the vehicles with similar equipment. The C280 4-matic comes standard with dual 10-way front seats which is a $3600 option for the IS250AWD which brings the price to about $46,600! And the C280 has more power and torque than the IS250. IS250 is a better deal if you don't care for the power seats.

But let's say you really want the Xenon headlamps, you have to ditch $8300 for the IS250 luxury package compared to $1485 for the C280... Want the rain sensing wiper option? $8300 for the IS250, $225 for the C280 and I could go keep giving you more examples...

[johngenx]

Yeah, I know about those things.  And Lexus has very high package pricing where MB dies have free-option pricing, which can help with getting the car you want.

I couldn't really care about power seats.  My current C-Class doesn't have 'em, and I have not once missed them.  Just something to break later and a real pain when broken.  Lexus has a more aggressive base price which allows someone that wants Lexus-ness and AWD to drive away and spend much less.

Now that Toyota owns the once-owned-by-GM stake in Subaru, could we ask that Subaru products are now sold by Lexus dealers?  What an ideal situation THAT would be...

[Benhaze]

I'd like that too as there is no subaru dealer in my neck of the woods... I would have seriously considered purchasing the new Legacy GT!

[a4_tom]

Since I am an Audi snob , A4 2.0TQ or A3 3.2Q S-Line would be my top choices. Forget about those 2, I would probably go with C280 4Matic if I want luxury with performance. If I am buying a 3-Series, AWD definitely not on my shopping list as RWD speaks true BMW driving spirits. Never fond of Infiniti products except original Q45. As for IS250, RWD is a better alternative to AWD given its pricing and packaging.

[Benhaze]

Here's my problem with the Audi 2.0L engine: I had a 1992 Eagle Talon that had a 2.0L turbo engine rated 195 HP/ 205 ft-lb. I can't digest the idea of buying a car north of $40K 14 years later that has "only" 207 ft-lb of torque! The only accomplishment is to meet the more stringent emissions regulations but I'm not sure it deserves all the publicity it is getting from automotive journalists..

The Legacy is appealing to me because it is as powerful as the Hot Rod S4 from a few years back and to my knowledge the Subaru AWD doesn't have the tendency to understeer like the Audi does. But don't need to be an Audi snob to realize Subaru's ain't Audi's!!! 

A3's not an option for me because my better half needs seat height adjustment capability. Still can't believe it is not available on this car...

[johngenx]

...and to my knowledge the Subaru AWD doesn't have the tendency to understeer like the Audi does.

Some of the base model Scoobs are pushers, but all the powerful and uplevel models have a very effective LSD in the rear final drive that makes the AWD system very neutral.  Our Forester can be steered with the throttle.

...and to my knowledge the Subaru AWD doesn't have the tendency to understeer like the Audi does. But don't need to be an Audi snob to realize Subaru's ain't Audi's!!! 

You're right!  Subaru has an excellent rep for quality and reliability, unlike Audi.  Also, for the price of an A4 3.0 with a few goodies, you can drive home an STi that spanks most Audis save for an RS4 which costs double...

[Benhaze]

Funny that Audi doesn't get all the bad press Volks is getting considering they share most of their components, don't you think???