Author Topic: axle seal crying. (Read 3769 times)

21Rouge · « **on:** October 06, 2005, 12:20:31 am »

I have an '05 5 speed with about 6500 miles on the odometer.
I noticed some small stains on the driveway but I wasnt sure which car caused it so I took the newer car to my one man mechanic down the street. On the hoist he noticed that the axle seal, driver's side front as it enters the transmission, is weeping..maybe leaking. He wiped it dry and said to bring it by tomorrow for a comparison. (There is not time to bring it to the dealer)

I need to drive this car many miles (1200 miles) this weekend. If I find out tomorrow morning on the squeezed in trip to the mechanic that by observation it isnt 'seriously' leaking..just weeping can I make the trip safely. What do you think?

(Btw, at about 2500 miles I had replaced the factory MT fluid with the manual recommended GM synthetic part no. 12346190, which is the Castrol Syntorq. The mechanic who did the fluid replacement commented that maybe the syn fluid caused the seal to swell...)

articsteve · « **Reply #1 on:** October 06, 2005, 12:51:43 am »

Did your mechanic check the level? Who changed the fluid (this is a Vibe right?); the dealer or you? Is this "Castrol Syntorq" the same colour as the stock fluid?

To answer you question, who can say? It will certainly torture you if you do risk it. What you would need to do is take along a jack, wrench and filler thingy and check it when you get where you are going.

Just to kick you when your down

is this not a Toyota tranny? Why did you trust GM to give proper instructions on something they didn't design. GM installs dexcool in Honda powered Vues.

They are an insane company where one part of GM has no control or knowledge of what other parts do. I certainly hope that nobody at the Vibe dealer clues in on your tranny fluid change.

What does Toyota recommend as a synthetic alternative for the Matrix 5 speed?

tpl · « **Reply #2 on:** October 06, 2005, 06:38:05 am »

The new fluid has been in for 4500 miles(? km?) and you have just noticed a few drips. So does this mean that it has only just started after 4500 distance units? or that you have been parking somewhere else ?

I agree with Artic's comments in general but I might just go on my trip and check it at the far end and if it is leaking lots then go to the local Toyota dealer and say my 2005 ( which is under warranty) is broken, please fix.

21Rouge · « **Reply #3 on:** October 06, 2005, 06:51:40 am »

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:51:43 am

Just to kick you when your down is this not a Toyota tranny? Why did you trust GM to give proper instructions on something they didn't design. I certainly hope that nobody at the Vibe dealer clues in on your tranny fluid change.

I dont see why I need to be secretive about the tranny fluid change. I replaced the factory fluid with the *manual* recommended synthetic. I purposely did this rather than select a non manual but probably better fluid. GM may not know the inner workings of a Toyota tranny but it is 'their' car by virtue of the Pontiac badge so I play by their rules.

barrie1 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 06, 2005, 12:15:31 pm »

I agree with you Boxgrover as whether GM built this car or not its still a GM product and they will have full knowledge of it. I am also sure Castrol has the Correct fluid for the car as they know exactly which specs are for which vehicle as well. These seals take a fair amount of abuse but do leak over time and if the seal is damaged then the warranty should look after it like it is supposed to. Instead of crawling under the car I would place a clean piece of carboard under the spot and watch for the signs of the leak when you are parked at your destination. If covered in spots then you know the answer to the question. This will give you the answer you need as well as help keep the ground clean where you are going as well especially if they have a asphalt driveway for you to park on.

articsteve · « **Reply #5 on:** October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm »

OK 2 points.

1. When the car is in motion the leak out of the seal, providing the seal is leaking, will blow back on to parts of the car and stick to various parts/areas. It will leak more when in motion. Consequently, I would not put a huge amount of consideration on an oil spot on the ground as a determinant regarding the rate of leak.

2. GM does not play by the rules anymore as they are in crisis mode. Regardless of whats right or wrong, ethical or whatever, I personally would not mention the upgrade. I would also go so far as at my own expensive, replace the Castrol stuff with the regular Vibe stuff so there is absolutely no "discussion" between the dealer and GM about who pays. I assume you got this done at the dealer. If it was done at your mechanic's shop then forget warranty coverage if they find out. This seal could be an expensive repair.

Warning: Do not use Castrol products. Who knows what this "Syntorq" stuff is comprised of. Castrol USA was the company that had the definition of "synthetic" changed so they could sell non synthetic oil as "100% synthetic". They are now the anti-christ of car lubricants.

barrie1 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 06, 2005, 11:48:37 pm »

Castrol may have had some things changed but the Products have to meet the SAE standards or they are not recognized as being compatible for any vehicle. They do obviously have the proper ratings so there is No way GM or anyone else can say you did not use the right products. The SAE must have excepted their reasons for the change or they could not advertise the SAE standards. Thats my view.

21Rouge · « **Reply #7 on:** October 07, 2005, 01:58:41 am »

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm

If it was done at your mechanic's shop then forget warranty coverage if they find out. This seal could be an expensive repair.

I wont mention it but as I indicated artic, this exact fluid, part no. and all comes from the owner's manual! The dealer cant say that the fluid is at fault...it is 'their' recommended fluid!

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm

They are now the anti-christ of car lubricants.

21Rouge · « **Reply #8 on:** October 07, 2005, 02:04:57 am »

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm

OK 2 points.

1. When the car is in motion the leak out of the seal, providing the seal is leaking, will blow back on to parts of the car and stick to various parts/areas. It will leak more when in motion. Consequently, I would not put a huge amount of consideration on an oil spot on the ground as a determinant regarding the rate of leak.

Good point. That may well be true. In any event I am currently in my hotel room having just finished a 9.5 hour 900 km drive with the Vibe. Barrie, I put down my sheet of bristol board under the car in the hotel parking lot. I have an appointment with the dealer when I come back on Tuesday after the long weekend. Of course I only told the service rep that I was coming in for a tire rotation

articsteve · « **Reply #9 on:** October 07, 2005, 07:56:52 am »

Quote from: boxgrover on October 07, 2005, 01:58:41 am

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm
If it was done at your mechanic's shop then forget warranty coverage if they find out. This seal could be an expensive repair.

I wont mention it but as I indicated artic, this exact fluid, part no. and all comes from the owner's manual! The dealer cant say that the fluid is at fault...it is 'their' recommended fluid!

Quote

So I take it that you had your own indy mechanic change out the fluid and add the Castrol stuff. Definitely don't mention anything about the change and the new fluid. As far as you know its stock. This is a new car so probably it will be hard to tell if the fill and drain plugs were tampered with. Hopefully the GM mechanic is not a closet detective.

I hear what you are saying about the synthetic stuff being recommended by GM, but if the dealer didn't install it then you are SOL. Just don't mention it because this seal could be nothing at all or in the alternative it could be an internal thing in which case they may just give you anyother tranny.

barrie1 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 07, 2005, 11:08:50 pm »

I don't think it matters who put it in the car as long as it is the recommended fluid which it appears to be. Think about all these Grease Oil Filter Shops across the Country and the Dealers saying you don't have warranty if we didn't do it. I don't think that will work in a Court of Law no matter how hard they try. Proof the service being done is all that is requird with proper records to prove it. Obviously this owner has this in his handbook. Enjoy your weekend in the Motel and have a good time.

21Rouge · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2005, 06:54:33 am »

Quote from: barrie1 on October 07, 2005, 11:08:50 pm

Enjoy your weekend in the Motel and have a good time.

I am at a a 5 day hockey tourney in Boston with my son. They have qualified for the semifinals today (finished 4th out of 18 teams after the 3 preliminary games). Lots of fun. Thanks Barrie1.

21Rouge · « **Reply #12 on:** October 09, 2005, 07:11:17 am »

Quote from: articsteve on October 06, 2005, 12:59:39 pm

Just don't mention it because this seal could be nothing at all or in the alternative it could be an internal thing in which case they may just give you anyother tranny.

If just the seal needs to be replaced (axle removed as part of the process?) will it be necessary for the current mt fluid to be completely drained? If not will they just check the level of the fluid and then just top up? If that happends they will most surely use conventioneal inexpensive 75W-90 (that grade is listed in the owner's manual) BUT the syn. fluid currently in, again listed in the car's manual, is a 75W85. However one only discovers this from the bottle's label. Any problem mixing the two weights and one syn., one not?

barrie1 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 09, 2005, 07:18:31 pm »

As far as the grade of the fluid goes you should be alright as that is not very far off of the specs but I am not sure how well the Syn will mix with the Dino Oil. AS it would only be a small amount I don't think it will effect anything at all.

jamie1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 10, 2005, 10:09:53 am »

Tell them you have upgraded to the syn gear oil. It should be no problem for the dealer to use the syn oil. At my dealership we pretty much always upgrade to syn oils after warrenty work is done[except engine oil,unless it is the factory fill]

barrie1 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 10, 2005, 01:04:33 pm »

Excellent reply Jamie as I know you are correct in that statement. Its very common now-a-days to upgrade these fluids with the Syn.

articsteve · « **Reply #16 on:** October 10, 2005, 02:11:37 pm »

Quote from: jamie1 on October 10, 2005, 10:09:53 am

Tell them you have upgraded to the syn gear oil. It should be no problem for the dealer to use the syn oil. At my dealership we pretty much always upgrade to syn oils after warrenty work is done[except engine oil,unless it is the factory fill]

If this proves to be an expensive repair why open your mouth about changing the very fluid that is now leaking out past the seals. This is GM we are talking about; a company bleeding do death. You haven't been crystal clear, but from what I 've read you bought the alternative fluid from a GM dealer but had your own mechanic install it.

GM can easily say that you tampered with their tranny and that the leak is a result of your interference regardless of what went it. To replace this fluid later will cost you $30. I would play super dumb on this one and not mention that either you or your own independant mechanic went near it.

21Rouge · « **Reply #17 on:** October 10, 2005, 08:21:37 pm »

Quote from: articsteve on October 10, 2005, 02:11:37 pm

You haven't been crystal clear, but from what I 've read you bought the alternative fluid from a GM dealer but had your own mechanic install it.

That is exactly what happened. I bought the fluid from Pontiac and have the receipt.

Quote from: articsteve on October 10, 2005, 02:11:37 pm

GM can easily say that you tampered with their tranny and that the leak is a result of your interference regardless of what went it.

They couldnt *easily* say this as changing the MT fluid seems almost easier than doing an engine oil and filter change. So I am not sure what scenario they could envision to place the blame of the weeping seal on an incorrect change of fluid. I guess they might say that too much or too little was put in. But I have the receipt that I bought 2 qrts as that is the capacity listed in the manual. I wont volunteer that the fluid was upgraded but I will if they ask.

barrie1 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 10, 2005, 09:12:44 pm »

To me you have absolutely nothing to hide as everything you have done is to Factory spec. There can't be any bitching here on this one in any way shape or form with those receipts you have. Go ahead and tell them the truth as you have 00000 to hide from what you have done.

21Rouge · « **Reply #19 on:** October 12, 2005, 02:04:48 pm »

Quote from: barrie1 on October 10, 2005, 09:12:44 pm

Go ahead and tell them the truth as you have 00000 to hide from what you have done.

Just an update: Brought the car in early yesterday morning. They confirmed the leaking seal but a replacement seal is only available from the US.

I called today and was told the seal would be in tomorrow afternoon. I then explained to the service guy that I had 'upgraded' my MT fluid to the manual recommended GM synthetic and was concerned that I would lose it all during the repair. He had no problem agreeing to refilling it again with this much more expensive synthetic.