Topic: CD Article: 2006 Volkswagen Passat

[johngenx]

Exactly, just ask a Subaru dealer how the sales of the Legacy are doing. Going upscale without a snob brand name is suicide.

I understand the top Legacy models are a tough sell at over $40K.  The 06 Impreza has bounced back thanks to the new look and SAB's a few other touches, and I guess the Forester 2.5X and 2.5XS are selling well, with marginal success in the top XT models.  The 2.5i Legacy models must be doing okay as I see many on the road and the dealer has quite a few with "sold" signs, but the higher-end ones are in some tough company.  The sedans have to fight the new Lexus IS250!  Youch.  Add in Audi, G35X, 325ix, and other AWD and even FWD and RWD models, and that $40K market is crowded with great choices.

Personally, I think the 2.5i Legacy wagon is a good buy and either of the aspro Foresters are decent value, the Impreza wagon is reasonable value in it's segment offering AWD, discs, ABS, SAB, and 173hp.

[Shnak]

I just this minute went to VW.ca.  Built the basic Passat   NO RED even BMWs  with their 20 shades of silver still have RED !!!!   Have to get a goddamn sunroof just to get the HID lights!     No sat radio offered ( to be fair the dealers maye have this and be ahead of the web site)  If you move up to the big engine then no manual transmission and they still want $1600 for the HID.

They are obviously not after me as a customer

Yeah because BMWs are given away, and the options on them cost pennies... right... 

[Shnak]

Do you guys think the new passat 3.6L will be reliable as the accord V6 I am skeptical of VW engineering skills.  I test drive the accord 2006 a few days ago. I like the accord quick response when it is push hard on accelerator. It rides quite firm and quiet but the potholes have been dampen very well. I will have to test drive the passat too.

Firm? 

The Passat 3.6 will be a rocket compared to the Accord V6. And engines have never been the problem with VWs, it's always been some electronics components. So don't worry about the engine, worry about things like windows not opening, etc. 

If I'm going to brave German electronics, I'll get a 325ix long before I'd go for the Passat. If I want the VW-ness, I'd get the Audi and take a shot at better dealer service.

So, the Passat still makes no sense to me. The A3/A4 completely negates the need for expensive VW products.

That's like saying there's no point with the Camry, Highlander, Civic, Accord or Pilot since they all have more expensive equivalents at Lexus or Acura. Similarily equipped A3s (versus upcoming GTIs) and A4s (versus new Passat) will cost you at least an extra 5 or 6G, if not more. The exact same thing can be said about the Accord and TL, or the Civic and CSX, or the Pilot and MDX. The only difference is that VWs are priced a notch (or two, or three) above Hondas and Toyotas while Audis are priced a notch (or two, or three) above Acuras and Lexus (only true about Lexus models based on/shared with Toyotas though).

And I personally prefer having a VW since they don't have as much 'snob appeal' as someone said in this thread, and VW dealerships are a lot more common throughout the country than Audis, plus there's a VW dealership very close to my work. And personally, I think Audis are a bit overpriced for what they are, basically, nicer VWs.

[safristi]

..REVERSE SNOBERY...............................BUY A BENTLEY!!!!

[Snowman]

  I guess the proof is in the sales numbers achieved by VW in the last 5 years 

[Shnak]

I guess the proof is in the sales numbers achieved by VW in the last 5 years 

In number of sales, VW is #2 worldwide (or was it #3? I don't remember). 

Don't forget that VW rules in Europe. And don't forget that they have better taste in Europe... they don't have the crap we have over here... Their crap over there would be amongst the best over here...

[Shnak]

I guess the proof is in the sales numbers achieved by VW in the last 5 years 

Oh, and Subaru sells like 5 cars a month in Canada... is that proof that Subaru sucks? I don't think so...

[Snowman]

I guess the proof is in the sales numbers achieved by VW in the last 5 years 

Oh, and Subaru sells like 5 cars a month in Canada... is that proof that Subaru sucks? I don't think so...

Stay focused, we are talking about VW, and I never mentioned Subaru. This is Canada the last time I checked.

So what you trying to tell me is VW sales are increasing over the last 5 years?

[Shnak]

So what you trying to tell me is VW sales are increasing over the last 5 years?

In Canada only, certainly not. But that can't be attributed to bad products. It can be attributed to terrible decisions... products cycles way too long, terrible packaging for Canada models (a lot of standard features in US models that we have to pay for in Canada, or not even available), not introducing pertinent models for our market (Polo, Touran, and a smaller SUV than Touareg), and not introducing the new Jetta and Golf at the same time as in Europe. We north americans (and especially Canadians) really get the shaft when it comes to VW offerings here... With their higher prices, rare incentives, and high financing rates, it's a miracle that VW still sells vehicles in Canada... I truely believe that VW still sells as many vehicles in Canada as it does because they offer something not offered by anybody else in the price range, and that they offer something that a lot of people look for in vehicles. So in my opinion, VW still sells many vehicles in Canada DESPITE VW's 'efforts' to kill the brand in Canada and the states. It's really as though they're trying everything they can to get us turned off the brand entirely.

So yeah, their sales have decreased recently, but it's more dued to outdated models and limited number of models... I'm sure some people are turned off by their recent reliability problems, but that isn't a major reason IMO. VW enthusiast still buy VWs... and VW enthusiast have always been the majority of sales for VW...

[Snowman]

VW  Woes: THE PITCH TO THE RICH
http://www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/0,9171,1101031124-543826-1,00.html

VW’s quality and reliability problems are compounding the lack of properly priced vehicles and gaps in the market.

[Shnak]

VW  Woes: THE PITCH TO THE RICH
http://www.time.com/time/globalbusiness/article/0,9171,1101031124-543826-1,00.html

VW’s quality and reliability problems are compounding the lack of properly priced vehicles and gaps in the market.

And I disagree with that. VW's are generally well priced for what they are and I don't think that's their problem right now. People that compare VW to Honda and Toyota might say VWs are priced higher, but deservedly so! Why is it that nobody complains that Volvos, or Saabs, or Acuras are expensive? IMO, those are the 3 closests competitors to VWs in terms of the merits of the cars themselves.

Gaps in the market, absolutely. And the same is true with Volvo, Acura and especially Saab... they all have a limited number of vehicles.

VW is moving away from the "People's Car" frameset of mind and moving into the more upper market echellon, similar to what Subaru has been doing recently too. People that cry about VWs prices recently still think of VWs as the "People's Cars", but that's not true anymore. When you think of VWs as equivalent to Volvos, Saabs or Acuras, you'll quickly realize that VWs are priced pretty well for what they are, and while yes they have gaps in the market, that's not too big of a problem when they don't aspire to flood the roads with tons of inexpensive vehicles like Honda and Toyota do.

And btw, that article was posted in 2003... Way to go to find up-to-date information to back up your claims... 

[Snowman]

I was comparing VW to its mainstream Japanese competitors and 2003 is within the last five years. Please read the post before you comment . Volvo is perceived as upscale with far fewer quality and reliability problems than VW does. Saab has major problems of its own very similar to VW. Acura has no quality and reliability issues and can demand a premium price. Acura is competing with Audi not VW. VW has clearly lost its way in the market

[johngenx]

That's like saying there's no point with the Camry, Highlander, Civic, Accord or Pilot since they all have more expensive equivalents at Lexus or Acura. Similarily equipped A3s (versus upcoming GTIs) and A4s (versus new Passat) will cost you at least an extra 5 or 6G, if not more. The exact same thing can be said about the Accord and TL, or the Civic and CSX, or the Pilot and MDX. The only difference is that VWs are priced a notch (or two, or three) above Hondas and Toyotas while Audis are priced a notch (or two, or three) above Acuras and Lexus (only true about Lexus models based on/shared with Toyotas though).

Yeah, and I think that the price gap between the Civc and the original EL was too close.  Sales of the EL surely compromised sales of Civic LX models.  Notice that the gap has been increasing slowly?  Also, there is NO Civic that prices well into Acura territory, not even the Si.  The Passat has severe overlap with the A4.

VW's get expensive fast and I'd be willing to give up a few options and go for an Audi.  It's all too mixed up, in typical German fashion...

[Shnak]

I was comparing VW to its mainstream Japanese competitors and 2003 is within the last five years. Please read the post before you comment . Volvo is perceived as upscale with far fewer quality and reliability problems than VW does. Saab has major problems of its own very similar to VW. Acura has no quality and reliability issues and can demand a premium price. Acura is competing with Audi not VW. VW has clearly lost its way in the market

Perceived... sure... do you have concrete facts that say that Volvo is more or less reliable than VWs? Because from my own experience with people that own/owned Volvos, they aren't Toyotas either... And you can say what you want, but by judging the vehicles themselves, the VWs are just as upscale as Volvos are.

And Acura thinks they are competing with Audi, but their products aren't competitive with the luxury offerings on the market, and are more aligned with what VW is doing.

[Shnak]

Also, there is NO Civic that prices well into Acura territory, not even the Si.  The Passat has severe overlap with the A4.

The Accord has severe overlap with the TSX... Similarily with the Passat (in between the A4 and A6 in size), the Accord is in between the TSX and TL... same situation... You can have an Accord priced the same as a CSX or a TSX, and it can get pretty close to a TL too!

I really don't see the problem with having a fully loaded Passat (which has a bigger engine and more interior space) being priced $5000 lower than a A4 3.2 Quattro... Given the choice between the two, there's no doubt in my mind that I would go with the Passat... the A4 is just too small, especially the back seat.

[Snowman]

“do you have concrete facts that say that Volvo is more or less reliable than VWs?”

Let me see, when I look a Consumer Reports reliability ratings going back to 1998 I see problems with the engine and the well documented electrical, fuel, ignition, and body hardware problems. I see no CR recommended checkmarks here.

Now I look at Volvo. I see all the S40, S60 and S80 have big red recommended checkmarks.

[tpl]

I just this minute went to VW.ca.  Built the basic Passat   NO RED even BMWs  with their 20 shades of silver still have RED !!!!   Have to get a goddamn sunroof just to get the HID lights!     No sat radio offered ( to be fair the dealers maye have this and be ahead of the web site)  If you move up to the big engine then no manual transmission and they still want $1600 for the HID.

They are obviously not after me as a customer

Yeah because BMWs are given away, and the options on them cost pennies... right... 

My point was only the lack of choices especially colour... I understand the lack of a manual transmission as only a tiny number of people would buy such on the expensive car... but the lack of colour choices amazes me

[Shnak]

“do you have concrete facts that say that Volvo is more or less reliable than VWs?”

Let me see, when I look a Consumer Reports reliability ratings going back to 1998 I see problems with the engine and the well documented electrical, fuel, ignition, and body hardware problems. I see no CR recommended checkmarks here.

Now I look at Volvo. I see all the S40, S60 and S80 have big red recommended checkmarks.

That's funny because in "Le guide de l'auto 2006" (Quebec publication), they rate the S40 4/5, S60 3/5, S80 3.5/5, V70/XC70 3/5 and XC90 3/5  for reliability. The Phaeton gest 3.5/5 and Touareg 3.5/5, while the Jetta and Passat are both not rated because they're too new. In their 2005 publication, they rated the Golf 4/6, Jetta 4/6 and Passat 4.5/6 for reliability... Now correct me if I'm wrong, but these numbers all seem similar to me...

Whatever, I'm sure I can dig up as many problems with Volvos as I can with VWs... the only difference is that nobody cares about problems with Volvos because they're an "upscale" brand and sell 1/10th of what VW sells in Canada...

[Shnak]

I just this minute went to VW.ca.  Built the basic Passat   NO RED even BMWs  with their 20 shades of silver still have RED !!!!   Have to get a goddamn sunroof just to get the HID lights!     No sat radio offered ( to be fair the dealers maye have this and be ahead of the web site)  If you move up to the big engine then no manual transmission and they still want $1600 for the HID.

They are obviously not after me as a customer

Yeah because BMWs are given away, and the options on them cost pennies... right... 

My point was only the lack of choices especially colour... I understand the lack of a manual transmission as only a tiny number of people would buy such on the expensive car... but the lack of colour choices amazes me

Seriously, how many red BMWs, Mercedes, Audis or Lexus do you see on the streets? That's not a color people want in high-end cars.

[Snowman]

“do you have concrete facts that say that Volvo is more or less reliable than VWs?”

Let me see, when I look a Consumer Reports reliability ratings going back to 1998 I see problems with the engine and the well documented electrical, fuel, ignition, and body hardware problems. I see no CR recommended checkmarks here.

Now I look at Volvo. I see all the S40, S60 and S80 have big red recommended checkmarks.

That's funny because in "Le guide de l'auto 2006" (Quebec publication), they rate the S40 4/5, S60 3/5, S80 3.5/5, V70/XC70 3/5 and XC90 3/5  for reliability. The Phaeton gest 3.5/5 and Touareg 3.5/5, while the Jetta and Passat are both not rated because they're too new. In their 2005 publication, they rated the Golf 4/6, Jetta 4/6 and Passat 4.5/6 for reliability... Now correct me if I'm wrong, but these numbers all seem similar to me...

Whatever, I'm sure I can dig up as many problems with Volvos as I can with VWs... the only difference is that nobody cares about problems with Volvos because they're an "upscale" brand and sell 1/10th of what VW sells in Canada...

  That Quebec rag’s budget is probably smaller than CR’s annual toilet paper cost. CR is the bible for automotive quality and reliability ratings.