POLL: Winters vs All-Season Tires

[davidm]

[quote author=Loudpedal link=topic=40548.msg467214#msg467214 d

As I write this, the van is at our local Nissan/Infiniti dealer awaiting a balancing job with a Hunter Road Force balancer (the only one in town).  From what I understand, this machine simulates being on the road with up to 1400 pounds of applied pressure during balancing.  Hopefully this will aid in curing the vibration.   

Just took the van out for a quick spin on the highway, the Road Force balance did the trick!   I'm joyous!   
[/quote]
Hunter balancing is truely worth the price.  Always did it for my Miatas and BMW.  Haven't bothered on the Volvos yet as we've had no issues.  Nice to hear that fixed you up.

I agree the tire is a compromise, just a better compromise than a non-season tire.  Summers and winters will always trump something else - just not worth it to me on the family mobile that doesn't get pushed and lives in the Vancouver climate.

[Loudpedal]

I agree the tire is a compromise, just a better compromise than a non-season tire.  Summers and winters will always trump something else - just not worth it to me on the family mobile that doesn't get pushed and lives in the Vancouver climate.

Agreed on the dedicated winters/summers.  As for the family mobile that does not get pushed alot, that's why I got them as well.  I just hope they 'soften' up a bit in the warmer weather. 

[Angry Chicken]

In reading through this long thread, one thing sticks in my mind and quite frankly annoys me.  A significant number of people who said that they plan to stick with all-season tires (an oxymoron if I've ever heard one!) through the winter months say that they will adjust their speed according to their tires' capabilities when the driving gets challenging.  In Ottawa, what this means is that people will drive in to work, 25+ kilometres at a snail's pace with a kilometre-long line of traffic behind them as they blithely and obliviously and on the barest edge of control make it in to work.  How much more efficient would it be if *everybody* had a good set of winter tires on *and* drove within a reasonable margin of their performance capabilities.  Average speeds would go up.  Commute times would go down.  Fender benders would be less likely and every one would win.  If the dinosaurs (and you know who you are) would just make the switch to winter tires that is!  There is well-documented, scientific, reproducible evidence that winter tires are less expensive in the long run than all-seasons, especially when factoring in reduced insurance claims, reduced wear on the 3-season tires, etc.  I have been driving on winter tires for 25 years now.  I hardly consider myself a pioneer, but am greatly satisified that more people are "getting the memo" about winter tires.  I used to be in a minority position but now am thankfully in a growing majority.  Unfortunately it will take legislation to get the vast unwashed's thumbs out of their collective bums and force them into buying winter tires.  In Quebec, it is a matter of record that from November 15 to April 15 you will be required to have winter tires on your car...period.   Too bad when you have to legislate common sense.

Frankly, I think that the same legislation should be enacted in Ontario, but based on region, though how this would be be enforced I don't know.  Clearly there is a wide range of winter conditions through a huge province like Ontario and people in Toronto, for example, make a compelling argument that their winter conditions are different than other regions.  Though after this winter that would be a hard argument to sell!

I would love to see the "M+S" designation and "All-Season" terminology retired and all new cars be sold with a summer-only designation on the tire sidewall.  This would send a clear message to consumers and help educate them that these tires are not meant for severe service winter conditions.  In fairness, much of the existing disinformation (as some have remarked) has come from well-funded industry lobbies and generally the past self-serving nature of the rubber industry.  In recent years, the Rubber Association of Canada (RAC) has taken a leadership role in reversing this philosophy and they should be applauded for it, but in the end it's going to be legislation and strong leadership by elected officials and a lot of pressure from....well...US! before things change for the better.  In the end, people's lives will be saved when we all drive on rubber that is appropriate to the season.  Bad enough that someone driving a poorly-shod car might do you in....worse still if you either directly or indirectly cause someone else's demise due to being a cheap skate.  Frugal people know the value of their money and will spend it as required.  A cheap person knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

Don't be cheap.  Spend your money and save a life.

/Eric

[mpsrent]

Simply put.....there is no such thing as an "all season" tire. Three seasons plus winter tires is my solution.

[carcrazy]

Nokian WR IS a winter tire that can also be used year round.

[vicali]

winter tires are the way to go,
last christmas we drove from interior BC to northern AB in a snowstorm most of the way, lots of cars in the ditches and people freaking out at every gas station about how bad the roads were. I wouldn't have made it out of town without winters.

most of the winter driving in southern BC is on wet/open roads, but I'd rather have noisy winters there than hard all seasons on top of the salmo-creston. 

[safristi]

Winters don't make U infallable..........give ya a few more yards....once you have facked UP...as many will believe infallability.....folk drove POS cars for nigh on 100 years with terrible tyres over ,under and thru Snowstorms.....COMMON SENSE...is the best defense.........yes "BUY" all means use them BUT remember their LIMITATIONS (same goes fer 4WD in all it's iterations and "HIGH" SUV's 

[ovr50]

Winters don't make U infallable..........give ya a few more yards....once you have facked UP...as many will believe infallability.....folk drove POS cars for nigh on 100 years with terrible tyres over ,under and thru Snowstorms.....COMMON SENSE...is the best defense.........yes "BUY" all means use them BUT remember their LIMITATIONS (same goes fer 4WD in all it's iterations and "HIGH" SUV's 

I actually agree with a Saffy post, the sky must be falling.....

(I left it for you, something about...ovrhead??)...

[safristi]

  I knows ya just lurves PALIN......too..... ....she was MONTYS DOUBLE!!!!

[vicali]

COMMON SENSE...is the best defense....

werd,

something about when the highway flagman talking in your window about the semi crashed ahead looks back at the car coming up behind you and starts yelling, 'he's not stopping! GO GO GO!" that makes you appreciate having that first yard of grip.

[safristi]

going too fast fer the conditions eh ! Vecali!!!!!

[20vcq]

I love to read notes from my fellow BC residents saying they do not need snow tires in North Vanocuver (my home town) even in Victoria where I now live.
These are likely the same folkes we see on the news sliding down Lonsdale Ave. in North Vancouver with the brakes locked up heading their Bimmer to the pole. Or the Victorian who heads up "The Malahat" and ends up blocking traffic for two hours on his way to Mt Washington with chains in the trunk. 
I have never driven in the winter without snow tires. For the past 40 years I have bought cheap snows and studded them on all four wheels. Noisy - you bet - nice to hear when you hit black ice though.
This year I may spring for a set of Michelin XIce as after removing the studs for some dirt road use I find the noise level is a little nicer. 

[safristi]

 Fack VICTORIA is ACES.......ya can stud yer tyres..put yer POOP right inna Ocean........do they have drive Thru "beverage" Barns aka Liquor take_away outlets......
 hell I'm ready ta die fer Van Island.............

[alberich]

There are many other factors to safe winter driving other than tires. Just see what happens after the first snow fall! It seems to take a month or so for many drivers to adjust.

Personally, I've found that the type of transmission (automatic vs manual) & the driver makes more difference that the type of tire. I've driven in winter (Edmonton & Rockies) for over 3 decades including on fresh deep snow on mountainous roads with A/S tires and as long as I have a manual transmission, there is usually no problem. It's when I switch to an automatic that the problems start. With a manual transmission you can use engine braking to slow down rather than the brakes. It's also easier to rock the car out of problems by just dipping the clutch, rather than spinning the wheels. Starting off is also easier since you have far greater control over the tire speed with a manual & a clutch.

Maybe everyone should switch to manual transmission in the winter ;-)

[SkiBunny]

I use All-Seasons, in Toronto, but maybe I should reconsider...

Heard on CBC last night that below 7 degrees, the rubber compound in winter tires provides better grip.  So winters are safer even with bare roads, as usually is the case here.  Hmm.

[ovr50]

I use All-Seasons, in Toronto, but maybe I should reconsider...

Heard on CBC last night that below 7 degrees, the rubber compound in winter tires provides better grip.  So winters are safer even with bare roads, as usually is the case here.  Hmm.

I would think that ice and cold are more common in TO than heavy snow. Personally, I would definitely use winter tires there.

[airbalancer]

I use All-Seasons, in Toronto, but maybe I should reconsider...

Heard on CBC last night that below 7 degrees, the rubber compound in winter tires provides better grip.  So winters are safer even with bare roads, as usually is the case here.  Hmm.

I would think that ice and cold are more common in TO than heavy snow. Personally, I would definitely use winter tires there.

Very True
Hard pack snow on the roads is very common

[SkiBunny]

Hard pack snow on the roads is very common

In the city the roads and expressways are bare for the vast majority of days (unlike out in the boonies & beyond).  Snow in the city quickly becomes slush and then melts.  Alas there is frequently more salt than snow on the roads.  I think road salt should be banned because it's environmentally toxic.

[javatire]

i think $700-$800 is alot of cash to drop on a set of snows. the government should definitely give rebates or tax deductions especially the quebec gov't since there making it mandatory there.
i just shopped around for some in ottawa and they are all sold out (i guess its the quebecers coming over.)
i had to get mine online. a set of yoki's. there top rated by APA.
back to the question- i would say winters are better but should be cheaper!

[ovr50]

i think $700-$800 is alot of cash to drop on a set of snows. the government should definitely give rebates or tax deductions especially the quebec gov't since there making it mandatory there.
i just shopped around for some in ottawa and they are all sold out (i guess its the quebecers coming over.)
i had to get mine online. a set of yoki's. there top rated by APA.
back to the question- i would say winters are better but should be cheaper!

Most sets of winter tires will last at least 4 or 5 winters, so $800 per set is no more than $200 per year. I say that's good value to keep you safer in your vehicle in the winter, and less inconvenienced by being stuck. That would be, I would think, especially so in a snowy place like Ottawa. We get much less snow out here, but winter tires are still a very wise investment in winter driving.

As a tax payer, why should I pay for your tires??