Topic: Purchasing a new car (Freight + PDI)

[yale_x]

I was just curious when people purchase a car using APA or CCC and say they got that vehicle for invoice +$500 or $750, they have to add to that price Freight and PDI and a/c tax. But is freight and PDI negotiable? I mean $1,425 of freight and PDI for say a Honda Odyssey seems a lot.  Doesn't the dealer make a profit on Freight and PDI as well? Some clarification on that would be appreciated. thanks.

[paulk]

As Canadians we're getting gouged on freight+PDE.  That same Odyssey in the US is only $550 USD ($655 CAD) for both freight and pre-delivery handling.

[articsteve]

I was just curious when people purchase a car using APA or CCC and say they got that vehicle for invoice +$500 or $750, they have to add to that price Freight and PDI and a/c tax. But is freight and PDI negotiable? I mean $1,425 of freight and PDI for say a Honda Odyssey seems a lot.  Doesn't the dealer make a profit on Freight and PDI as well? Some clarification on that would be appreciated. thanks.

When I paid $20.00 for 2 APA "suggested price" sheets on two vehicles of choice it listed what they suggested the selling price should be, what the freight should be and what the PDI should be which I think was NIL. It also stated "admin fee"  as NIL.
Providing one agrees with what the APA states, one simply hands the APA document over to the dealer rep and gives them a take or leave option.  Zero discussion on final price.

CCC  differs I believe.  I think they give you dealer costs and you negoiate from that point with that information.  That still leads to bickering.  But I have not used CCC nor have I used an APA preferred dealer.

Dealers got to make some money.  I used the APA suggested sale price printout because I was buying for somebody else with their money and just wanted to move the process thru fast.  It took 30 minutes including the hype from the business manger for rust proofing and all that crap. Don't let them nail you there.

[No H2O]

I mean $1,425 of freight and PDI for say a Honda Odyssey seems a lot.

You're kidding me, right?

Work out your discount off the MSRP of the vehicle (what ever percentage is acceptable to you), then add in the $1425 and Admin Fees. Stand firm and walk out when they start playing games as they so often do.

Better still, tell them to not do the PDI. You're buying a NEW car. If anything fails, they can cover it under warranty.

Doesn't the dealer make a profit on Freight and PDI as well?

Well most of us don't call it "profit". We call it "rip off".

Ever wonder not one single person, and there are a few associated with dealers on here, has been able to justify the PDE and Admin Fees. They simply can't. Little wonder this slime ball industry got the reputation they've got.

[hondasalesguy]

hcrv you are lumping everybody in the autombile business into one big slimy group. I can only speak for one manufacturer, but in the case of Honda, Honda Canada has told dealers NOT to charge administration, documentation/etc types of fees. If a dealer says all his cars are etched and you have to pay for it, ask him to order you a car. He will then realize that it is better to sell you a car today than to wait a month for delivery of a new one off the truck. As far as freight/PDE, yes there is dealer profit in there. Usually goes to the service department, I am assuming you would like your local dealer to actually HAVE a service department for when things go wrong or just for routine maintenance? So if he makes $400 in the freight/PDE, and another $1000 on the car (Odyssey/CR-V) or $600 (Civic) is that really an unacceptable amount of margin on a $20,000 - $45,000 investment? He also pays interest on all cars on his lot. Many businesses operate at drastically higher profit margins than do car dealerships. (Furniture/contractors/clothing) but people accept that as a fact of life. However it seems to be some people's quest in life to deny a businessman or salesperson the right to make a fair profit on his investment or for his hard work.

[No H2O]

Hondasalesguy,

You're missing the point. Why am I even paying for PDE. Am I not buying a new car? What are they going to dream up next?

Why should I pay to make sure all the bolts/nuts are tight, that my wheels won't fall off?

Why should I pay $20 for $0.99 of windhsield washer to be added to my reservoir?

Why should I pay to make sure the oil levels are topped up in a NEW car? Don't...if it seizes, warranty will cover it.

And what are they doing to a new car for 8+ hours (what the PDE charge will cover). I already know the answer....you tell us. I once had some fun and called various dealers. Interesting and hillarious answers I got.

And the rate at which PDE has increased percentage wise...gimme a break!

[articsteve]

PDI is nothing more than a car wash, quick vac, fluid check and gas up.  My son when he was in high school used to PDI cars in the afternoon.  10 bucks per car.  Mechanics don't PDI anything.  It should not exist, but the dealer world managed to slowly introduce it while slowly increasing the price.  When the PDI price hit the ceiling they turned to "Admin Fees". 

[sterling]

It obviously differs by manufacturer. On a new Ford, the freight amount is exactly the same in the invoice column as it is in the MSRP column. There is no dealer profit in the freight charge. Also, there is no additional PDI charge. Ford pays the dealer to do the required PDI.

You need to discuss the brand in question in order to get anything but kneejerk reactions.

[toolatecrew]

I'm waiting to go to the grocery store and see:

Carrots 1.59 a kg
Freight 0.10 per KG
PPC (pre puchase cleaning) .08 per KG
Admin fee ( for cashier to ring you through) $1

But hey they do give you free loaner carts.

[No H2O]

PDI is nothing more than a car wash, quick vac, fluid check and gas up.  Mechanics don't PDI anything.

When I worked for Volkswagen a long time ago back when they sold real Beetles, I used to wash the cars (initial wash was with kerosene to get the sea wax off that wasn't completely washed off upon entry into Canada), then a regular wash with soap, a vacuum, windows were cleaned and I would install the wiper arms and blades, hub caps, drill holes for the licence plates, etc. All done by a low wage gopher...and maybe a half hour would be spent on the vehicle by a mechanic.

And as you've mentioned, none of this should be paid for by the customer. Its part of the MSRP and what I've already paid for in that price. If the dealer doesn't want to deal on MSRP, that is their right. I'll go elsewhere.

Hmmmm....still nobody has defended the PDE/PDI charges; not even the dealers on this forum. I wonder why?

[No H2O]

I'm waiting to go to the grocery store and see:

Carrots 1.59 a kg
Freight 0.10 per KG
PPC (pre puchase cleaning) .08 per KG
Admin fee ( for cashier to ring you through) $1

But hey they do give you free loaner carts.

Hey, you may be onto something. Maybe I'll open a grovery store so that I can rip people off.

Good sense of humour!

[sterling]

Its part of the MSRP and what I've already paid for in that price.

Absolutely correct. But then, who pays MSRP?

[No H2O]

Its part of the MSRP and what I've already paid for in that price.

Absolutely correct. But then, who pays MSRP?

I never do...I got 19.7% off my last new BMW. And no PDE, freight or Admin Fees were tacked on.

He he!

[JSCC]

You forgot that they have to peel the white protective stickers.
Install the floor mats.
Install the antenea.
Program the keys.
Set the clock.
Set the radio code.
Gas up the car.

LoLz!

As a salesperson, I would rather put freight & PDI, air tax, gas tax in MSRP.
List price + 15%, see you later.
Don't even have to punch the damn calculater that many times.

[SeasideLass]

The new car I bought, there was no freight or PDI--there was a $195.00 administration fee--they had to bring it over for me from the Mainland.

[vt]

Probably most of us that work in the sales department at a dealership would love to not have FRT/PDE, Air Tax, Gas Tax, etc., etc. listed out on a bill of sale.  Our lives would be much easier if these charges were already included in the MSRP but that's not how the manufacturer or the government want it.  They require that we list them out separately.  We are invoiced by the manufacturer for the vehicle, freight, air tax, advertising, etc.  They then tell us what to charge for each of these additional items on top of the price of the car.  PDE is the inspection of the vehicle after it arrives to ensure that it is in proper working order and that all fluid levels are topped up.  Like a safety certificate, it ensures that the vehicle is road worthy and has not sustained any damage and that everything is still good after the ship, rail and/or trucking process.  If you've ever seen any of these guys load or unload vehicles from a railcar or truck, I'd think you might want someone to double check the vehicle!  They also do things like install fuses, wheel covers, washer fluid, etc. which is not done on the production line. 

[si]

When cars come off the truck they are not deliverable.  A significant amout of cleaning time and mechanic time is needed.  They also come with the bare minimum of fluids. 

I agree that I think that PDI + Freight is far too high, but remember that each buyer must take a piece of the total transport costs to make the car deliveries.  That ain't too cheap in a country as big as Canada.

[widefire]

That ain't too cheap in a country as big as Canada.

True but why does Audi charged 700$ for a A3 that is built on the other side of the ocean when Honda and some others charge the same or more than that for a car built in Canada?

[sterling]

It's so you'll be so excited about the cheap freight charge that you'll forget about the inflated car price. 

[si]

It's so you'll be so excited about the cheap freight charge that you'll forget about the inflated car price.