Topic: Non-Metro Toronto Driving

[Turbo Bob]

If you had to live and work in the centre of a city, lets say Toronto for example, what car would you get for the weekends only. Budget of $30k

 

[wing]

rent a car each weekend it would be much cheaper.

But probably something usefull at least to go buy your big box items in the burbs

[AVToller]

I think Wing's suggestion is a great one, and one that I would follow. Get something roomy and 4wd for those camping weekends, something sporty and fast for the driving ones. A different one every weekend if I so wished. With a $30k budget, one can rent some remarkable cars. 

[si]

Subaru Forester Turbo Manual.  Big enough inside, small enough outside, good power, good on gas, good in winter.

[random006]

Wing is on the right track.  Rent instead of buy unless you have other obligations (family, regular cargo hauling,...)

A friend of mine lives right downtown in Montreal.  He inherited his father's car a couple of years ago and found it a pain in the city.

He sold it as soon as he could and now belongs to a car sharing club.  Before getting his father's car, he rented when necessary.

[froggy]

Yeah, totally agree with you guys on this one. use the subway and rent whenever.
Would you own a car in London for instance?   

[tenpenny]

Let's face it:  living in the city itself, you don't need a car day to day.  So what you want is something for those fun getaways on the weekends....I KNOW:

A LOTUS, maybe an EXIGE........!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






(I just couldn't resist......)

[tpl]

Froggy: yes I would.  When I lived there last( 1974)  I did and would again as all my old friends in the UK live on the south coast  AND I hate rural transit  AND M2, channel tunnel and then expressway all the way is the cheapest way to the Pays Basque  ( Ryanair maybe technically cheaper but not when you include car rental there).

Bob.  I do live right in the centre of Toronto  and I drive out to the burbs to work.  I also drive inside the city at weekends as the most of the trips I take are cheaper by car including parking than using the TTC. there are exceptions of course, pub night is always TTC.   If I worked also in the city centre I'd TTC in bad weather and walk in good.

To answer the question  
     2nd hand:  Subaru Impreza hatchback, Golf or something like that

[airbalancer]

BMW E36 328 Cab, end of question!

[s60]

I'm bad with budgets, so I would spend a couple  grand more, and drive a base S40.

But if I have to adhere to the $30,000,  Mazda6 Sport GS-I4 .

If I rented a car every weekend, I would be spending approx $5,000 (min) a year, which I'd rather
put towards  my own wheels. I couldn't be car-less.

[froggy]

Fair enough Tpl, but isn't there a daily 5£ fee for entering London with your car now?   
Otherwise, 30k, a 3-4 years old BMW 330i, IMHO (you still have to drive it in the winter)

[froggy]

Tpl, where did you use to go in the Pays Basque? Bayonne or San Sebastian, Bilbao?

[locutusx]

well, i wonder how many of you guys have actually tried being car-less in Toronto?

*maybe* it'd work if, say, you worked at the Eaton Centre (like me) and lived in one of those overpriced Harbourfront condo's (like some people in my office) and you were single with no kids... and had no qualms about doing all your shopping at expensive downtown shops...  :O

but for most people who live in the "city" (read: Megacity), a car is necessary to overcome the poorness of our mass transit system.
unless you live near one of the 2 subway lines. even then, commute times of up to 45-50 minutes are common during rush hour, and your total travel time would get worse the farther each of your endpoints (your house and your office) were from an actual subway station.

Now I'm not saying you'd need to drive to work, but you may very well need to drive to the parking lot of, say, a subway station or GO station.

also, i'm not a fan of the TTC in general after 10pm. while it may not be as bad as the transit systems in LA or NY after dark, it's getting there...

BTW please don't compare Toronto's transit system to London's. The Brits' system is amazing and quite possibly, the BEST on this PLANET! It'd take 100 years (with current levels of funding and current rate of funding increases) for us to have something even remotely resembling theirs.

Sorry for OT. If I had $30k for a "weekend" car I'd get a Toyo Highlander
yes, it might have to be 1-2 years old to stay within budget.

[barrie1]

I live in the other London and Yes we need a Car to go many places as our transit system while being fairly good is just not quite good enough when you started work 1 hour before the Bus's did.  Unfortunately a Vehicle is becoming a neccesaity of life for many people. 

[paulk]

well, i wonder how many of you guys have actually tried being car-less in Toronto?

I lived in Toronto after college for about a year without a car.  It's quite doable.  The bus system in Toronto is above average (not excellent) and combined with the TTC you can pretty much get anywhere.  My commute to work was 45-50 min. each day, which is a little long, but it was balanced out by being able to sit down and read for about 30 minutes of it.  I'd use the time to catch up on work-related reading that I had to do anyway.  In my opinion, it was certainly no worse than a lot of my co-workers who had to brave the same amount of traffic each day, even if they saved 15 minutes or so each way.  Co-workers who had to come in from places like Pickering obviously had it much worse even with a car.

In most cases, you do have to be willing to combine two methods of transport:  TTC, bus, or walking.  A single method won't get you most places.  That's true of pretty much any city though.  With insurance+fuel+maintenance+depreciation costs taken into account, it's still much cheaper to live carless, even if you have to sometimes take the taxi to do heavy shopping and occasionally shop at local stores rather than driving out to a big box store.

If you're married and have kids, you need a whole lot more stuff and it makes sense to get a car, but most couples in Toronto could probably get by with just a single vehicle if one of them is willing to commute using public transportation.

[quadzilla]

Very interesting thread.

If the 30G doesn't count for OTR pricing then I'd obviously pick the Mazda 6-Wgn as our choice of cars is for biking, hiking, backpacking, etc. and need the space.

If the 30G does mean OTR I guess I would have to look for a 2 year old Legacy Wagon even though I would want to say something small and sporty it just wouldn't fit with our current life needs.

" *maybe* it'd work if, say, you worked at the Eaton Centre (like me) and lived in one of those overpriced Harbourfront condo's"

Since we do live in TO and I work in West Bloor (Bloor St W/Runnymede) and my g/f works downtown (above the Eaton's Centre) but we do not live in an overprice condo as we live near Main/Gerrard in the Upper Beaches (the not so rich section, trust me) I think I have an opinion here.  We do not drive to work and we either take subway or I ride my bike on most days.  Her commute is about 45 minutes and mine is 1 hour on bike or 45 minutes on the subway.  For the record it would take me 45-55 minutes to actually drive to work.  Since it is only a 5 minute walk to the subway from our place its very easy to get to the TTC, but I even consider a 15-20 minute walk easy though.  We don't ever wake up and think, lets drive to work because it never makes any sense at all.  Sitting in traffic and parking costs alone are enough to give you ulcers.  We have 3 major grocery stores within a 15-20 minute walk from our place so we don't even have to drive to get food plus we walk down to the beach all the time (20-30 minutes).  If you missed the trend here, it involves planning a little more and walking which is great for you anyway. 

My cousin is thinking of moving further from the center and the drive alone would be over 1 hour without any traffic!  I keep saying, what about your time, does that not count for anything?

My parents (65 yo) made a decision to go carless a long time ago and they live in London (Ont) and it works well for them.  They walk, take the bus and my Dad rides his bike during the good months.  If they need to go out of town with a car they just rent.  They can walk to a grocery store to get all of their supplies also.  If they don't feel like walking they just take a Checkered Cab.  I'm sure they spend way less than owning a car every year.

Living in the city (TO) is expensive but I believe you have to factor in your lost time, extra gas, insurance and sanity of driving everyday.  The guy that works beside me is a sole supporter (wife w/2kids) and they own their house (ok the bank does) rides his bike to/from work but he says he would rather get home in 20 minutes than 2 hours to be with his family instead of sitting in traffic so they moved into the city.  You can't put a price on that (time with your family).

I've heard that living in the city creates healthier people as they tend to walk more places because they can.  Living in the burbs gives a tendency to drive more as everything is further away. 

I think living without a car isn't as bad a people think it is. 

Don't know if I just rambled or said anything of value, its early.

[airbalancer]

Fair enough Tpl, but isn't there a daily 5£ fee for entering London with your car now?   
Otherwise, 30k, a 3-4 years old BMW 330i, IMHO (you still have to drive it in the winter)

Hardtop for vert
 Quadzilla , my daughter lives there, only reason she wants a licence is for ID
How about a Vesta(sp) to use all the time instead of the TTC

[tpl]

Froggy:  Yes I know about the congestion charge. When I lived there I rarely drove within that area as I lived in Shepherds bush and worked in the City so the central line did it for me.

Locutusx/Quad/PAulk.    I am 75 metres from the Carlton car and 300 metres from the Dundas car in Cabbagetown. As I get close to retiring I wonder about moving out of the city to realize some gains on the house but I think that I will be able to stay here and do without a car.    maybe a Taxi back from the St Lawrence market on a saturday. Gerrard st ( carlton car) to little India for dinner, 10 minute walk to the Worlds biggest bookstore.... serioulsy convenient.

Various friends have moved away to the boonies  and now have to own multiple cars and have to drive a few miles even for a newspaper... AND no high speed internet... AND no pizza delivery!

[Wetson]

I live in Toronto on the east side of Downtown and when I was in a condo at Bay&Charles I didn't need a vehicle as a daily driver and would rent for weekends etc.  When I bought a house the need for a car became extreme.  I didn't like wasting 1.5 hours a day, $2.25 each way to stand on a smelly streetcar/subway and carrying home things for the house on transit was a real pain in the butt!  Now it's a 10 minute drive each way and if I need to go to the 'Depot' I can hop in the car and go and not have to worry about transit schedules and how much I can bring back.  My point.... everyones needs are different as this thread conveys.

So back to the real topic... budget 30K, weekend driver for leisure etc .... and I'm going to pretend there are no car rentals etc....  The car I would choose???  I like the Cobalt SS.  I wouldn't want it as a daily driver though... not refined enough. 

[sparky]

I can't imagine having such an intensely urban lifestyle that I could live without a car. Mass transit is OK, I guess, if you want to be transported to where the masses are going. I prefer places where the masses don't go, and I don't always wait for the weekend to go there. And if I decide to head out, I don't want the hassle of reserving, picking up and returning a rental car, even assuming something desirable is available, which is not always the case.
Back to the topic at hand: For a $30K weekend car, I'd like zoomy, but I need roomy. So maybe a used turbo Subie wagon of some sort. My AWD X-Trail SE fits the financial specs, too (just barely), and it's roomy, versatile and pleasant to drive, so there's another good candidate. In the best of all possible worlds, I'd commute to the cottage in a Lotus 7 with a hired driver trailing behind with all my stuff in a van.