Topic: regulated gas prices?

[avro206]

Whats your opinion on this? This is something I have been thinking of foe awhile.

I beleive that gasolinse is an essential need in our society. Cities in Canada have grown so much nad we live in a very large country that depends on trucking to transport most of our goods. And prices of all goods will go up because of higher fuel prices.

Where is the benefit to society? Sure the government takes in even more taxes but that doesn't really directly benefit us, the over taxed Canadian people.

6 years ago the price was about .50 Litre where I live. Now its over 100% higher----my icome hasn''t rised that much!

Transit systems are a joke---the time you waste on it (okay that can depend alittle on where you live, how close to work ect) cannot be recovered. A car is essentail to daily life.

These rising prices are nothing but gouging. The actual cost to refine gasloine has not risen but we are forced to pay higher and higher prices every day.

Don't get me started on the double taxation the federal crooks...err...Liberals do to us. The 1.5 cents per litre excise tax was used to fight the deficet---the defiet has been gone for 8 years!!!!

Alberta has enough oil for the entire country. I say the Government impose a fixed cost to gasloine. Say 0.75 litre for the entire country and then sell the excess to thr rest of the world at market prices.

[ovr50]

NO - regulating the gas price will not work. Nfld tried it recently. Utopian thinking. You cannot override the rules of economics - they will previal, legally or illegally.

[weebl]

Regulated gas prices failed horribly in the '70s in the USA.  Shortages were everywhere.  It won't work.  As much as we all hate the high prices, that isn't the solution.

[ovr50]

Sorry to be so terse below - but the main reason it does not work is this: Say all Canadians pay $1/L for gas and it's regulated. Say also that excess is sold to the outside world at the equivalent of $2/L. A crude producer in AB, BC or Sask is forced until this scenario to sell his oil to "Canada" at a reduced price, knowing he can get double that price selling outside. Why should he produce any oil at all? Is Canada going to physically force him to produce for sale at 50% of value? Not likely. So, what does producer do? He stops producing oil and he stops looking for new oil.

When Fidel Trudeau brought in the NEP, the oil field activity dried up and companies stopped exploring and producing. AB cities lost jobs and houses were repossessed in the cities. That was the legacy of the NEP and would be the legacy of any REGULATED pricing attempt.

[mdxtasy]

Everybody's ranting and calling for cheaper gas prices so it's more accessible for all Canadians.  At the same time, some of the very same people are also talking about conservation and the responsibility of using non-renewable resources carefully. 

[ovr50]

Everybody's ranting and calling for cheaper gas prices so it's more accessible for all Canadians.  At the same time, some of the very same people are also talking about conservation and the responsibility of using non-renewable resources carefully. 

Mdx - not sure I get your point there?

[mdxtasy]

One of the main drivers to help facilitate responsible consumption is higher gas prices.  That way, more thought is put into fueling up large SUV's, inefficient vehicles etc.  So now that we have it, we now complain how we all can't afford to keep our cars fueled.  How it costs us more to drive in to work, how it is $xxx dollars more to drive to school etc.  You can't have cheap gas AND expect people to conserve it at the same time....something about a cake and eating it too?  People always have to biatch about something....

High prices will help the fight to conserve fuel....possibly lower demand and even possibly, regulate the price of fuel through market demand. 

All in all, I'm just really tired of always reading about how much gas costs....

[captain_ron]

People in Canada/USA are extremely ignorant when it comes to gasoline and cars.  Having lived in Eastern Europe for a period of time, and visited many other parts of the world, I feel that a car for the majority of Canadians is A LUXURY! rather than something they require.  If you own a farm in the middle of no-where Alberta, obviously you need a car/truck/etc.  If you live in Vancouver and have an office job, do you really need a SUV/Large car?  

Obviously some people REQUIRE a SUV/TRUCK to tow their 20' boat, their sleds, quads etc.  But those are all luxuries, so if you can afford those, don't about gas.

- GAS IS CHEAP in CANADA!  I know living in Croatia gas was almost $2/L (now it is probably $3/L) and the average income was like $600/month.  Do you see SUVs? NO!  You see 1.3L diesel Yaris (Echo), diesel Toyota Avensis, and the rich buy diesel Mercedes.  If a car isn't a diesel it is probably a 65hp 4cyl 5spd Focus ZX5.  Here the BASE engine is 136hp! Go Figure.  Not to mention that A/C is very hard to find, even thought it is much hotter in Croatia than Canada, same with Auto, impossible to find.  Why? A/C + Auto = Luxury.  Face it - YOU DON'T NEED A/C! It isn't a matter of life or death.  

Gas in Canada is going to have to go above $2/L before we start seeing people making educated choices.  It is getting ridiculous, people buying huge homes with 0% down, SUVS etc.  People need to learn a lesson.  

[random006]

Avro206 wrote:

Transit systems are a joke---the time you waste on it (okay that can depend alittle on where you live, how close to work ect) cannot be recovered. A car is essentail to daily life.

Interesting you broached this topic.  I was going to do some research on the related item of what changes this will bring to how we live.  I disagree that a car is essential.  While it is true that public transit works best in medium to large urban centres, many people in Montreal live quite happily without owning a car.  When the need arises, they rent using one of several different companies or schemes.  Students are able to get into town using the train in combination with bus and metro.  More on this later in a new thread.

As to your main point, I do not agree that regulating prices will work.  As Ovr said, no pricing structure can exist in a vacuum for long.

[wing]

random, did you start another thread about that?

I would not give up my car it would turn my 7 minute commute to around 40 min.  That is NOT worth it to me.

[random006]

random, did you start another thread about that?

I would not give up my car it would turn my 7 minute commute to around 40 min.  That is NOT worth it to me.

No new thread yet.  I'm putting together my thoughts on the matter.  As for your commute, in a previous post, you said:
$60 a month is a lot IMO.  That could change someones budget considerably.  I moved to save $200 a month in gas, originally.  Now I'm probably saving $300 a month in gas because of that move!

It begs the question, exactly how far were you before you moved? 

[wing]

45-60 min drive depending on traffic.  I was filling up every 5-7 days, now I fill up every 14-18 days.

[skypoint]

captain_ron makes a very good point. North American cars are bigger and more fuel-thirsty than European cars. Yet Europeans do the same things with their cars.


Consumers here seem spoilt. They do not need the power (and resulting fuel inefficiency) that they have under their hoods right now.

The GM Epsilon platform in Europe starts with a 1.8 litre engine then has a 2.0, then a 2.8 V6. In North America, it starts at 2.2 litres  and then goes up to a 3.5 V6.

Why does the same platform have to have much larger engines in North America and Europe? The car holds the same amount of people, the same amount of luggage... but Europeans are willing to have less power to do that with.

[AVToller]

I can hardly wait for my Echo Yaris to arrive!! Now, more than ever.  My gas guzzling Escort is killing me. Note, I decided on it BEFORE the prices went entirely crazy. Call me a prophet. 

[mrthompson]

Prophet........profit......oil profits........

[safristi]

..a SAGE Rosemary or THYMe'ing.....SCARE'Boro..ALL FARES please..there's NO SPITTING ON THE BUS SIR....Avtollers new Yachrriss' is over there....!!!!! Phtooeey......

[The Mighty Duck]

We seem to be agreed that a regulated gas price isn't going to work...  what about regulating HOW gas is priced?  i.e. - the price at the pump jumped as soon as Katrina hit the Gulf Coast.  But the stations already own the gas in their tanks - shouldn't they wait until they've had to pay out for a new shipment before charging us more?  It takes about a month for oil to be refined and get to the pumps, really we shouldn't be seeing the effects of Katrina until that point, no?

Mind, that only delays the price increase, but at the very least the oil companies are not robbing us blind.  Right now they can up the price on gas they already own?  Not quite kosher, imho.

[ovr50]

Can you even begin to tell us how (the mechanism) you would go about regulating who is selling "old gas" vs "new gas". The cost of regulation would have to be passed on the consumer and the cost of gas would be higher yet. Why do think you have to find some way to control this?

Profits as absolute numbers are meaningless. You don't know the size of the asset base (return on assets could be low even with large profits).

I find this entire idea of somehow either the govt or the oil cos are ripping you off is ludicrous. Gas prices were increasing long before Katrina; due to high demand and constricted refining capacity. How many of you environmentalists have allowed a new oil refinery to be built in your backyard in the past 20 years. There have been few refineries built in 20 years but global demand has skyrocketed.

IMO, some of the emotional types need to do some research on the oil exploration process, the state of world oil reserves, refining capacity, global supply and demand curves, etc. Then add in Katrina knocking out about 1/3 of total US production, and at least 8 major US refineries. Then add in the "fear factor" of everyone gassing up at the same time as they think it's going higher tomorrow. And the traditional Labor Day Weekend high demand in NA.  Now, add it all together and you have the reasons why gas costs more than you like it to be (not even mentioning "fear" on the futures markets where gasoline futures are traded).

Having said all that, reports of $1.80/L gas in Burks Falls, ON (wherever) sound a bit like local greed on the part of one (or maybe 2) station owners. Gas around here seems to be settled in around $1.189/L now.

Do some research before you complain irrationally. It gets tiresome.

 

And if you really want to read some plain stupid and totally irrational responses - go to the Detroit News "CyperPoll" section and read the letters posted there. It makes all the complainers on here look like geniuses.

[gollumn]

Sorry to be so terse below - but the main reason it does not work is this: Say all Canadians pay $1/L for gas and it's regulated. Say also that excess is sold to the outside world at the equivalent of $2/L. A crude producer in AB, BC or Sask is forced until this scenario to sell his oil to "Canada" at a reduced price, knowing he can get double that price selling outside. Why should he produce any oil at all? Is Canada going to physically force him to produce for sale at 50% of value? Not likely. So, what does producer do? He stops producing oil and he stops looking for new oil.

When Fidel Trudeau brought in the NEP, the oil field activity dried up and companies stopped exploring and producing. AB cities lost jobs and houses were repossessed in the cities. That was the legacy of the NEP and would be the legacy of any REGULATED pricing attempt.

NAFTA won't allow us to sell to the Americans for more than we sell to our own. but I do agree, where's the incentive for CDN companies to go out and sell so cheap to us?  I wonder if nationalising a portion of the Oil Sands would be the only answer.

[gollumn]

Gas in Canada is going to have to go above $2/L before we start seeing people making educated choices.  It is getting ridiculous, people buying huge homes with 0% down, SUVS etc.  People need to learn a lesson. 

I hate to say it, but I agree. As they say, the remedy for higher gas prices is higher gas prices! (longer term).