Author Topic: Any opinions???  (Read 1650 times)

Offline punisher4u

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Any opinions???
« on: September 01, 2005, 04:06:15 pm »
Now that we are paying an arm and a leg for gas...I was really thinking of getting a diesel vehical. I am looking into the Volkswagon Jeta. What are the pros and cons with diesel engines? Are they worth the extra purchase? will I get my money back with the fuel savings? How about reliability and performance? Don't like the small Echo's or in that class category of cars. Too small.

Your opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Offline Shnak

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2005, 05:22:48 pm »
I have a Jetta TDI, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. And I'm laughing my ass off these days when I see regular gas costing 1.25$/L while diesel still remains around 1$/L!  ;D

Offline tpl

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 05:23:34 pm »
60 million frenchmen can't be wrong....

Diesel has more energy/litre than gasoline. The Diesel cycle is, under most conditions,  more efficient thermally than the Otto cycle. Diesels, because of the way the cycle works tend to be stronger than gasoline engines and often last a lot longer.

If there is ever taxation of motor fuels applied in a logical fashion, diesel fuel would cost more than gasoline.
Some very efficient modern diesel engines ( specifically the Jetta 100bhp TDI) dont generate enough waste heat at idle to keep the cabin warm(!)  Diesels do not pick up rpm as fast as gas engines, partially because they are not throttled and partially 'cos the computers that control the injection in modern engines try to keep the smoke down. Black smoke from a diesel is a function of more fuel being injected than there is air available to burn it.... hence why diesels and turbos go together like bagels and lox.... more air, better combustion, more power, less smoke

Diesel fuel ruins lether shoes in seconds and dissolves rubber soles.

2006 we get get clean diesel fuel, 2007 new emission laws make make diesels more difficult to get in NAand they are scarce enough now.

The jetta diesel with a manul transmission accelerates fast enough but it does reuyire more time to pick up speed in the mid range so you have to plan 2 lane passing carefully.   Froggy or Joie will be along to tell you how europeans drive their diesels on narrow 2 lane roads!  ( in a word... the brake pedal is just there to make the car look nice not for use)

The jetta diesel costs more than the jetta gas so..... if gas gets 40-42mpg and diesels 58-60mpg then
a) how many miles will you do
b) under what conditions? highway? city?
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Offline Shnak

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 05:36:23 pm »
Some very efficient modern diesel engines ( specifically the Jetta 100bhp TDI) dont generate enough waste heat at idle to keep the cabin warm(!)

What kind of crap is that? Do you even know what you're talking about?! It takes a few minutes longer to get heat, but once you get heat, your cabin will stay warm!!!  ::)

tpl, have you ever owned a TDI?

mr_meow

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 05:48:51 pm »
Good for you - I love diesel - VW make a good Diesel - but avoid the petrols engine - I always wanted a Fabia Diesel

 Diesel don't like short runs cause your be running them cold - Diesel they are more exspencive to maintain - but they don't go wrong has much - at least you hope not - Diesel can be hard starting in winter - I also heard that diesel can freeze in the tank even when driving at -40 - but an additive can fixed that (not sure if thats true but thats what I heard) Also don't what so ever under no-circumstances let them run of fuel

If you have never driven a diesel - then you in for some surprises and their not evey ones cup of tea - in europe everyone drives a diesel - honda toyota all have diesel - they complete normal - I like the sound of the engine - they feel to me anyways - like that they last for every the engine nevers seams to be over work - they only slightly loud on take off - which I kinda of like. :)

also VW parts are really really pricey  :o
.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 05:51:42 pm by mr_meow »

Offline sly

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 07:49:42 pm »
I can't wait to get a decent selection of diesels in Canada. I love the torque and the fuel economy, not counting less maintenance and longer longevity of the engine (carefuel what your thinking guys!)

BUT..., I would not buy a VW! Despite a good diesel engine, the rest is VERY expensive to maintain and not so reliable. Too bad the engine is terrific and the road manners are top.

C&D did a comparo two years ago between a Mercedes E320 and a Beetle (out of convenience). It was much more expensive to maintain the Beetle!!!?! Unbelievable!


Offline jeeper

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 07:57:25 pm »
I still prefer my petron engine...quiet and indeed powerful....
it will take years and more years before i start thinking about a diesel vehicle...

Offline barrie1

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 10:39:56 pm »
The newer Diesel engines do produce good heat after they are warmed up but do take slightly longer times then the gas engine to get the same heat range.  The VW Diesel engines are a good engine but its the other problems like electrical stuff that is the downfall of these cars. Some of the VW's also have serious rattle problems as well. Their quality has fallen a long ways in the last few years while their prices have gone up. Not a good thing to do in the marketplace.

Offline ovr50

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 11:02:27 pm »
I still prefer my petron engine...quiet and indeed powerful....
it will take years and more years before i start thinking about a diesel vehicle...

Maybe sooner rather than later as that Hemi keeps sucking up the expensive good stuff... :hide:
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Offline kelefe

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2005, 12:40:08 am »
There are posters here that swear by their VW's so that could be you. Give them a drive to see how you like em!  :)

Although, unless you drive lots of miles, a diesel may not be worth it. It has been mentioned before that they are expensive to maintain and reliability may be a question.

My opinion is that if you want to save $$ on fuel AND ownership costs, you may want to consider the usual suspects of civics and corollas.

Offline tpl

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2005, 06:41:31 am »
Shnak,  various posters in this forum have mentioned this in conjunction with the newer TDIs.  One of my co workers owned one through a couple of winters and said that it was fine on the highway but could not keep the cabin warm at idle /traffic jam on a -20 day. So maybe I was imprecise in my post.   
I notice that you did not disagree with anything else tho!

yes I have driven a 100bhp TDI, a 2003 in france for a month, albeit not in the winter and I have it high on my list for a post retirement car...although if I could afford a diesel BMW ( and if they are imported...)

« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 06:45:18 am by tpl »

smainville

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2005, 07:49:02 am »
I don't see anything that great with diesels when I'm sitting behind one and have to flip my recirc switch on :-\

Offline punisher4u

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2005, 08:42:35 am »
Those are very interesting and helpful comments guys. I thank you all for your time in response to my questions. I guess I have some decision making to do.

Thanks again

Offline Shnak

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2005, 09:31:26 am »
tpl, the newer TDIs, from 2004 and up are a lot better than the previous ones... so the one your co-worker has used for a couple of winters is most likely the 90hp version, which isn't the new pump-duse engine.

And the thing you said about RPM, well it's kind of true, it doesn't pick up RPM very fast... but my redline is at 4600! My sweet spot is between 2500 and 3500. No need to race towards the redline like in small Honda engines when your redline is at 4600 and you get pretty much all of your torque around 3000 RPM... the TDI is just a different beast from anything else on the market. You really have to experience it to appreciate it. I was reticent towards diesel when I was shopping around to trade my CR-V. I test drove a Golf TDI out of curiosity and I was sold! It really didn't take long... the torque, the accelerating sound, the idle sound, I love it all!

Let me tell you, I'm the worst possible candidate for a TDI, I live about 4-5km from my work, same thing for my girlfriend. So most of the time, we only do short trips. I never had problems starting it up last winter, even when it was -40ºC for many nights in a row. I did use a diesel conditionner called Kleen-Flo I believe to prevent my diesel from freezing. As soon as it's below -20ºC for a long period, diesel might freeze in your tank. So when you know it'll be cold for the next few days, you empty a 1.50$ bottle of diesel conditionner in your fuel tank when you fill it up with diesel. I used 4 bottles last winter I think and I never had problems with my diesel freezing or my car not starting.

As for heat, well yes, it takes a bit more time to get heat in the cabin, nothing you can do about that. Your car uses 20-30-40% less carburant, so there has to be a trade-off somewhere, right? Well this is it... during winter, it takes about 5 minutes of highway driving to get heat in the cabin... if you only do stop-and-go driving in the city, it'll take more like 10-12 minutes before you get heat. In my case, 8-9 minutes of city driving each morning, I don't get much heat before I get to work... but it hasn't bothered me at all. I crank up the seat heaters to the maximum though. Those help a lot!

Just so you know, my oil changes cost me about 90$ at my local dealership. I have a 16,000km service interval, but I'll be going to every 8,000km during my warranty period I think. Yes a Civic or Corolla would cost less in maintenance, but I didn't want to drive a Civic or Corolla. I wanted a Jetta. Heck, my previous CR-V cost me something like 28$ to change its oil at the Honda dealership! But I was tired of my CR-V.

And if the recent days are anything to go about, I'll enjoy paying 93.9¢/L for my diesel instead of 124.9¢/L for regular gas for many many many more years!  ;D

Oh, and the sound system is absolutely awesome! I have my phatbox hooked up to it, and every single time I start up my car, I'm impressed by how the sound system renders all the new tracks I hear for the first time in the car. It would be really hard to return to cardboard sounding sound system like in the Corolla, Civic or Mazda3 after being absolutely spoiled by my VW audio system.

I went to have a look at the new Passat a few days ago and a Passat Wagon TDI might be interesting to get in a few days, but other than that, I don't see a single reason why I would sell my Jetta!!! I'm loving it!

Offline tpl

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2005, 06:24:34 pm »
Shnak  we agree on it all you are right it must have been a 90.

I used to hate diesels and refused to rent them... then in about 1994 the french took the sulphur out of the fuel and I was converted instantly.  My diesel driving has been on vacation and, importantly in an environment where a 100 bhp tdi is a drag racer!... but again in the Pyrenees which do have steep bits even at the western end.... again that torque just boogies up those mountain passes.

The tdi I rented  was used as a hack to and from everywhere and hammered down the autoroutes at 160km/h 4 up with the A/c on for a month solid and it did 47.5mpg over that month ( terrible habit.... checking on every fill up!).  This was a rental with 1650 km on when I collected it so it might have been a bit stiff.

Offline Brigitte

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2005, 06:53:39 pm »

Does the redline matter when a car is an automatic like yours, Shnak?

Offline Shnak

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Re: Any opinions???
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2005, 12:56:57 am »

Does the redline matter when a car is an automatic like yours, Shnak?

What do you mean by that? When in full acceleration, the transmission will let it rev close to the redline before shifting up... and when I'm in tiptronic mode, I also get close to the redline...