Author Topic: Liars - politicians and oil companies!  (Read 2570 times)

Offline No H2O

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Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« on: September 01, 2005, 10:15:20 am »
Politicians have perfected the art of maintaining a straight face while lying. All they have to do now is perfect lying itself.

Before I went to Europe in June, the price of gas was in the low 80s per liter. Now some three months later, it has increased by roughly 25 cents; all blamed on world oil pricing. Hmmmm, yet as of yesterday, gas in Italy had only gone up 5 cents Euro or 7.5 cents Canadian per liter. Is Europe not affected by world oil prices? I am sure they are.

The latest increase is blamed on hurricane Katrina. What Canadian oil prices have to do with some disaster in the US, I’ll never know. If we are tied to US pricing, can some politician tell me why gas prices haven’t decreased when the cost of a US dollar dropped from $1.60 two years ago to the present day rate of $1.19.

If politicians and oil companies are going to lie to Canadians, they should at least perfect the art of lying.
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Offline Brigitte

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2005, 10:17:51 am »
Guess you had to fill up your tank today, HC?   ;D

Offline No H2O

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 10:24:12 am »
Guess you had to fill up your tank today, HC?   ;D

Nope but when I do, I only put $10 in the tank in protest.

I get 70 MPGs (4.0l/100km) with my Kawasaki KLR 650. 20 liters gets me 500 kms. ;D

Offline safristi

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 10:50:05 am »
Neat bikes and Pics "H" will have to go thru them slowly to savour the Alpine Aromas. A BIMMERPHILE BIKER who bought a KLR Kawa......it's much like my  '87 Honda TransAlp and that's where I'd love to be riding mine..Trans Alps....
        We'll have ta get ya a new colour riding suit,the RED clashes with the views and teach ya ta pose  like a Hollywood Star..if ya were any stiffer we could use ya as a driveshaft!!!!!(jokin').... ;D....
     Yup the gas prices are being maniipulated..a spokesperson said we had to keep them up after Katrina 'cos the US would gobble up out cheap!!! suppy and leave us EMPTY..yeah just like her brain.....Bush has unleashed the reserves 1M barrels a day...some are saying it will be back at 80cents soon...MY BET $1 a POP...Regular....
THERE IS NO CURE FOR "LOTUS"......ONLY TREATMENT.....

Offline skypoint

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 11:14:15 am »
Most Canadian petrol comes from Canadian oilfields. However, the fact that a large portion of US oil production has been knocked offline by katrina means that the USA is making up for the shortfall through buying more Canadian oil.

This increased demand for Canadian oil is driving up the price of Canadian oil both internationally and domestically. It's a matter of supply and demand.

Prices for Canadian consumers could probably be brought to more reasonable levels by implementing strict limitations on oil exports to the USA, so as to reserve Canadian oil for Canadians. But this would seriously damage US-Canadian relations, as well as face all manner of legal challenges.
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Offline AVToller

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 11:21:54 am »
Let's see, there IS a penalty if we try to sell them our softwood lumber, and there WILL BE a penalty if we don't sell them our oil. Hmmm - seems fair as usual.  >:(
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Offline No H2O

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 11:28:15 am »
Prices for Canadian consumers could probably be brought to more reasonable levels...

I'll start to go stateside where gas is still A LOT CHEAPER. A gas station there now gives you a bridge coupon so that you don't have to pay for the crossing.

Competition...there is nothing like it. Too bad it can't be found in any Canadian dictionary.

By the way, what arguement can be used when other global prices have only increased by 7.5 cents per liter since June. Another lie?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 11:35:50 am by hcrv »

Offline skypoint

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 11:57:48 am »
Global prices are an average. Oil from each region costs different amounts. Costs differences arise from reasons varying from production levels to oil quality.

European petrol comes from firstly from North Sea oil and then from the Middle East. This is simply because of geographic proximity. The further you have to transport oil, the more expensive it becomes.

North American petrol is suddenly more expensive because a large protion of North American production is disabled. Demand has remained the same while supply has sharply fallen, hence a dramatic spike.


Offline ktm525

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 12:00:48 pm »
Current gasoline prices are being affected by the lack of refining capacity. A lot of refineries were knocked offline in the USA and there is a real possibility of gasoline shortages. The current situation is not a shortage of crude (at least short term) but a lack of capacity to turn that crude into gasoline. Since the big storm did not hit Europe their refineries are still on line. Also the cost of crude in Europe makes up a smaller % in the cost of retail gasoline than in Canada (ie. more tax in Europe). Therefore an increase in crude cost makes the increase in Europe less than in Canada.

Now you know. ;)

Offline safristi

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2005, 12:41:49 pm »
As far as I know New Orleans and the gulf was a reciever/producer of OIL not a REFINERY...that happens down the road in Houston...NO...which was untouched and I'm sure they have plenty of Crude they are still refining..it's NOT JUST IN TIME...oil production...PLUS the US Reserves are NOW AVAILABLE...are they NOT pre refined or Crude or a Combo...there is a lot of tricks and mirrors going on...tankers can be re routed and probably were as the storn approached they are offloading at other refineries/depots....... just what percentage of supply was disrupted...certainly not enuf to warrant the money GRAB going on..it's like Enron all over again...manipulations/BS I hope heads are put in beds...JAIL BEDS again...!!!! >:(

Offline ovr50

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2005, 12:52:24 pm »
Everybody looking for a scapegoat...!!!

I have read that about 1/3 of US crude oil production has been impacted by Katrina (offshore rigs, platforms, gathering systems, etc). This will cause a temporary dislocation of US supplies. Continuing disruptions in the Middle East and Labor Day weekend driving also factor into it.

Bet it's down to "around" $1/L or slightly more by Christmas.  ::)
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Offline ghost

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2005, 12:57:55 pm »
Limit oil supplies to US? That calls for an invasion in the name of WMD!!!  ;D

Offline safristi

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2005, 01:07:05 pm »
"IMPACTED!!"....yeah like constipated in the Colon PIPE LINE and  us being held at ransom....1/3 impacted..a weasely word..STOPPED ....TRASHED irredeemibly...re routed....and for how long....???? the true facts are know to few...with the reserves that is a moot pont anyway......
   Yup Ovr 1$ a pop was my forecast elswhere by Santa Claus time...when we will be gripeing about home heating costs

Offline woohoo

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2005, 01:07:53 pm »
One day the bubble's going to burst...

Offline No H2O

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2005, 01:10:49 pm »
Oil from each region costs different amounts.

But further up you stated, "Most Canadian petrol comes from Canadian oilfields".

So what is the problem? Our refineries didn't get hit.

Offline woohoo

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2005, 01:12:28 pm »
I think the problem is that the US refineries did get hit.  They will be buying more from us in the short term.  Increased demand, increased price.

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2005, 01:28:13 pm »
One day the bubble's going to burst...

The higher the gas prices go up, the inflation goes up. When the inflation goes up, interest rates go up. Many ppl cannot afford the payment for their newly acquired real estate due to the high interest rates. The real estate market price drops. Then the auto market will be even worsen by then (Vancouver's auto market performance has been performed subpar in comparison to the rest of Canada and North America). That's the chain reaction of high gas prices.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 02:14:48 pm by a4_tom »

Offline johngenx

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2005, 01:48:56 pm »
That is a real danger.  David Dodge is an anti-inflation maniac and has been dying to raise rates for some time.  The BOC has sorted energy out of the inflation equation for some months, but might not do so if wage pressures come to bear to cope with rising energy costs.

Personally, I feel that the rising energy prices will be enough to slow the economy, and interest rate pressure will not have to be brought to bear, but that would be pretty conservative for a central bank hoping to flex it's muscle.

This is history repeating itself.  When energy costs and other minor blips caused minor inflationary pressures in about 1988, by 1990 the BOC had responded like mad with insane interest rates.  Instead of cooling a hot economy, they tanked a warm economy and sent us into a lengthy recession.  Even neo-con policy wonks and economists admit that the BOC made a grave error, but do we think anyone will learn from that?  Doubt it.

There is back-room political pressure to raise interest rates to raise unemployment and keep wage pressures low, especially in the service industry sectors.  Also, wealth holders (lenders) have suffered from low rates.

The real problem is the huge increase in debt.  Mortgage debt is very high and the worrisome part is the high debt:equity ratio that many have.  Too many people "upgraded" their houses based on the equity they built in the real estate market moves of 1998-2001.  Also, consumer spending debt is very high with large credit card balances.  People have financed their entire lives.  They borrow/lease their cars, the owe on their TV and furnitiure and borrow for vacations.  This has made the typical Canadian family VERY sensitive to interest rates.
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Offline paulk

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2005, 01:56:50 pm »
Like the 70s, there is no good answer to interest rates in the face of high gas prices.  Inflation is a given.  If you raise rates to cut inflation, you push the economy deeper into recession.  If you lower rates to encourage the economy, you push inflation up.  It could very well be stagflation whichever way the Bank of Canada goes.

The last US recession came very close to stagflation, in my view, without an oil shock.  I think the likelihood of stagflation (at least in the US) is now very real.

Offline Snowman

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Re: Liars - politicians and oil companies!
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2005, 02:05:27 pm »
I am slightly concerned with the threat of higher interest rates. A 1% change in my floating Mortgage rate will be an increase of $120/month. It will take 18 months for that rate to affect my rate if we have ¼% increase every quarter. Big deal. I have no sympathy for people with high credit card rates…..grow up. I keep a very low limit of $2000 on my card to avoid temptation. If I need more….use the LOC.

I think the BOC will proceed with caution…..they have been threatening interest rate hikes for the last year now and only raised it once.