Topic: Diesel beats hybrid in cross-USA fuel consumption test

[quadzilla]

New York, New York - A comparative test drive from New York to San Francisco, conducted by the German car magazine Auto Bild, matched a new Mercedes-Benz ML 320 CDI diesel with a Lexus RX 400h hybrid. Combined results showed the diesel got 10 per cent better fuel consumption than the hybrid.  

The average total consumption for the Mercedes over the 5,200 km trip was 9.2L/100km (31 mpg Imperial), while the Lexus achieved 10.2L/100km (28 mpg Imperial). While the total consumption was combined driving, with an emphasis on highway driving, the hybrid performed better in city driving. The diesel also produced ten times as many NOx emissions.  

Source: http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050825-7.htm


For some reason I thought both of these cars would have done better than that.  I wonder what their avg speeds were?  

We did slightly better than that with the 6-wgn on our last trip to Utah and California which was driven at speeds 'slightly' above the speed limits.

[Shnak]

Well those are very heavy vehicles... they're not Echos and Insights... And I'm sure their non-diesel or non-hybrid equivalent would have consummed easily 3L/100km more than the diesel and hybrid vehicles tested.

9.2L/100km for such a big and heavy Mercedes is very impressive. If I had the money, that's the vehicle I would buy. Diesel rocks!

[quadzilla]

Here are the specs as per the MB site.

E320CDI   
Fuel economy,
city estimate 8.9 litres/100 km  
highway estimate 5.9 litres/100 km  

Net torque 369 lb-ft @ 1,800–2,600 rpm  
Curb weight 3,835 lb/1,740 kg  


E350
Fuel economy,
city estimate 12.3 litres/100 km  
Fuel economy,  
highway estimate 8.0 litres/100 km  

Net torque 258 lb-ft @ 2,400–5,000 rpm  
Curb weight 3,703 lb/1,680 kg

[Shnak]

hmm damn... for some reason, I thought that the E320CDI was their new SUV.. which is the ML320CDI. Ignore my previous post

Why would they compare a sedan to a mid-size SUV though?

[sirAQUAMAN64]

They aren't.

They took the European or modified ML CDI (it is slated to be available here relatively soon) and pitted it against the RXh. Both SUVs.

Quad took the North-American market E CDI vs E V6 just for comparison's sake, because you said you figured both should return better figures than stated.

[quadzilla]

Actually I screwed up.  For some reason I was thinking of the sedan which I really like, not the SUV.  Ok, makes more sense now.  But look that the EPA on the E320, I'd rather have that anyway.

[Sterling]

I don't remember reading anywhere that hybrids were claimed to be better at highway driving. In fact just the opposite, with hybrids claiming better city economy than on the highway. As such, those results aren't surprising. I wonder what the results would be for 5000 km of city driving.

[Shnak]

Quad, do you have real world numbers for the E320 though? You can't compare real world numbers vs stated numbers.

It's too bad they didn't include a regular ML and a regular RX330 in their test to compare their diesel/hybrid numbers against them...

[quadzilla]

Shnak - I have no real world numbers for the MB.

It would have been interesting to have both models in the test though.  Would have gave a better example of what could do what if that makes any sense.

[tenpenny]

I think the only place hybrids make sense is if you do a lot of city type driving, sitting at lights, etc.

I know NRCan had some Priuses (Prii???) in their fleet, and they found over time they mileage wasn't particularly better than the Echo.  Because of the type of driving.

[froggy]

Hybrid are better in City driving b/c of their shut-down feature... A really neat one.
I wonder if there is a way to adapt it to a combustion engine....

[tpl]

Priuses  for sure not prii

Diesels on idle are very lean and use little fuel to sustain themselves

[safristi]

Sounds like ME ..if you exclude the "Premium" alcohol requirements...BUT remember I don't FREEZE UP or refuse ta start inna Winter...!!!!

[barrie1]

To Me neither one of these 2 cars has overly impressive fuel No's at all. My 1984 Seville gives me 35MPG Imperil on the highway in 4th gear on reg fuel to boot. Even my 1988 Fleetwood with the 5 ltr engine gets me at least 30 MPG. To me thats not much advancement on milage at all. PS The Fleetwood weighs 5638LBS as well. The Seville is 3968 wet.

(Message edited by barrie1 on August 25, 2005)

[johngenx]

I've had an an ML320 loaner and took careful note of the fuel economy.  I averaged 17L/100kms in city/freeway driving.

The ML will suck way more gas than it's E-Class cousin since it weighs 4500+lbs and the E-Class weighs about 3200-3500.

We used to own a 1998 E300 turbo-diesel and typical city mileage was in the mid 8's and highway driving in the mid 6's.  It could break 1100kms on a tank of fuel.  Too bad it was a lemon, the stupid car.  Spent more time on the hoist than on the road (hence the weeks with the ML loaner...)

[Shnak]

Barrie, why don't you compare apples to apples? The ML 320 CDI and RX 400h are mid-size SUVs that weight a lot more than your Seville, and they are certainly less aerodynamic than a sedan... Compare those numbers with a GM TrailBlazer or Yukon and you'll see a close to 30-40% benefit for the diesel vehicle.

[stodge]

How about a real-world test: drive across Canada in a diesel and a hybrid in the middle of winter! Then see what you get!

[johngenx]

Ignoring the gov't ratings for the fuel economy, I do find the INCREASE in fuel economy impressive.  An ML is not a particulary fuel efficient vehicle and getting under 10.0L/100kms is a real improvement over it's typical 16-17 numbers.

As to winter driving, Toyota's hybrid system is at a real disadvantage in Canada in the winter.  To keep the heater running, it has to run the gasoline engine nearly all the time.

The thing I don't get about the latest hybrids is the huge engines.  Why does the Accord Hybrid use a big V-6 with electrial hybrid technology?  Sure, it's quick and get's better economy than the V-6 "normal" version, but so what?  If I'm shelling out the extra $3K+ for the hybrid tech, I want it to get awesome fuel economy, not just "pretty good."

The Lexus is the same.  The 400h gets better economy than a comparabale RX330, but no better than many one-size down SUV's.  The "smaller" crowd have nearly the same interior space, the same or better fuel economy and don't have the potential liability of the batteries.

So, what's the deal?  Well, hybrids are "fashionable."  Cripes, the Yuppies now want hybrids that cost more and don't really offer much of a fuel economy benefit.  When will the morons stop?

[barrie1]

My Fleetwood at 5600 plus lbs is as close to these heavier vehicles and when on the highway it is around the same milage as the new ones in this thread and almost the same weight. There's not enough improvement for me to even pay any further attention to this topic. Too much money for too little payback yet.

[joie_de_vivre]

I followed the article in Auto Bild. They had to have their own tank truck to fill the CDI V6, since american diesel fuel is too filthy for its ultra high-tech piezzo injector common rail injection...

The CDI in the E320 is the old in-ine 6, which is only sold in America. Europe gets the V6.

Regards,
Martin