Author Topic: Oil Leak 2003 Honda CRV (Read 2265 times)

jonmar · « **on:** August 15, 2005, 06:47:58 pm »

I have a 2003 CRV. It has 93 000 kms on it. It has been to the dealership 4 times since April for a bad oil leak. They changed a gasket (at my expense, apparently not covered under the power train warranty). The problem continued and they changed the same part saying the 1st was defective. Now they say they don't know what the problem is and are waiting to hear from engineering at Honda Canada. I tried a new dealership today and they indicated oil was leaking from the VTEC solenoid, and recomended I return to the original dealership. My AC also no longer works and an independant shop told me it was due to the oil contamination. Question: Is this possible regarding the AC, and what can I expect to pay for a solenoid oil leak? Thanks a ton for any help.

gta_driver · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2005, 11:42:50 pm »

This is quoted from a Honda Training FSM

"When driving the vehicle with the rpm high enough for VTEC operation, the engine control module (ECM) operates the variable valve timing solenoid to open the solenoid and allow oil pressure to be applied to the pistons in the intake rocker arms. This action causes the outer rocker arms to be pinned to the middle rocker arm and now the three rocker arms operate as a unit, using the high-lift camshaft lobe for improved high-end power. When the engine rpm drops below VTEC operation, the VTEC solenoid is not energized and hydraulic oil pressure is turned off. This allows the return spring to return the pistons to their rest position and lets the rocker arms operate independently again. The VTEC transition between low and high rpm is smooth and normally not felt by the driver."

Assuming that the ECM, rockers and spring are re-usable, this is a labour intensive fix. I would say your gonna be around the $1000 mark. I would get Honda to at least give you the parts free to cut down your bill. This would be easy to do if you had the CRV serviced from new at the Honda dealer. This is one of those repairs that is better off done sooner than later as it can severly damage your engine. This is also one of those fixes that requires the expertise of people who know what they're doing.

Yes the VTEC solenoid not working will affect your AC. I would see if your AC comes back with the fix. If not you got separate repair(which you may want to leave till next spring-since summer is almost over).

Good luck!

barrie1 · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2005, 11:46:57 pm »

That sure dosen't say much for Honda's quality or warranty. I do feel bad for this owner as thats a pile of BS on Honda's part not to repair this problem which is obviously a design fault.

jonmar · « **Reply #3 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:09:00 am »

Is the repair you have described covered under their 5 yr, 100 000 km warranty?

Craig · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:40:16 am »

I agree with Jonmar - if it uses oil, ain't it part of the drivetrain?

gta_driver · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2005, 12:47:32 am »

Jonmar Wrote:
"Is the repair you have described covered under their 5 yr, 100 000 km warranty?"

I don't know if it is. It depends on how the warranty is worded and how powertrain is defined.

Something has happened to Honda quality since '01. VTEC solenoid failure is pretty common in Honda's since than (for whatever reason the Civic, RSX and EL are immune-I think because it uses a different ECM management system). It seems that the solenoids tend to go after the warranty has expired usually between 101000 and 120000 KM's.

Its one of the reasons why I cross shopped the CRV but didn't buy one when looking for a small SUV. I read about the solenoid issue on a number of Honda forums. If something goes wrong in my LR, at least I can take the engine cover off and know where to look, pull codes and find things, The V6 has a simple design. With the CRV VTEC, its a whole different can of worms.

BTW what code did the Honda dealer pull? P12225 or similiar?

articsteve · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2005, 01:39:10 am »

My AC also no longer works and an independant shop told me it was due to the oil contamination.

Where is the oil contaminating the AC system?

I tried a new dealership today and they indicated oil was leaking from the VTEC solenoid, and recomended I return to the original dealership

You got screwed by a incompetent Honda dealer (original dealer) The issue will be if they acknowledge their mistake, reinburse you the original repair and cover this VTEC leak under warranty retroactively. Obviously the second Honda dealer smells potential fireworks on this one and is staying clear.

It might not be as bad as you think. The VTEC solenoid has a gasket between it and the cylinder block so it's probably just the gasket. The car is running OK right?

I do feel bad for this owner as thats a pile of BS on Honda's part not to repair this problem which is obviously a design fault.

Firstly, it is the dealer not Honda who has blundered this up.

Secondly, what is this design fault you speak of? Ok, a $10.00 gasket failed. It happens. Un bolt solenoid from cylinder head, replace gasket, reinstall solenoid unit.

OK Barrie, try this one on:

Father-in-laws 2001 LeSabre. Purchased new and service regularily at Old Mill Pontiac Buick, westend Toronto. Father-in-laws stupidly pays $1700 for the extended warranty plus all that car care BS.

56,000 km on vehicle. Upon driving a short distance car becomes hard to steer. Head to Old Mill which is shorter drive than home. Old Mill says power steering pump shot. Father-in-law must pay $405. tax in. GM will cover seals only under extended warranty. GM says car should not have been driven with bad powering steering pump so not honouring pump part of fix.

Gets car back next day and same problem. Drives to Old Mill. Leak is found in one on the lines that attaches to the new pump. Father-in-law is charged $56.00 labour and $14. for fluid and it was clearly dealers fault from bad installation. Father-in-law informed that if he didn't pay they would keep his car and charge $60. per day storage. Father-in=law pays. Mother-in-law who is ten year younger says last GM she's getting.

Moral is dealers often give their manufacturer the bad rep.

barrie1 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:04:56 pm »

Steve it sounds like your father-in-law was screwed by the dealer and not GM. It sounds like other owners have had this same problem with their Honda's so why bring up problems with a GM Product which has absolutely nothing to do with this posters problem. Your Father-in-law should have gone after GM on their Hotline to be reimbursed for his expences. This is the 1st power steering problem for Buick I have heard of so it has no bearing or revelance here with this thread.

Craig · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2005, 04:38:18 pm »

Steve it sounds like your father-in-law was screwed by the dealer and not GM.

Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the point he was trying to make.

jonmar · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2005, 05:02:48 pm »

I have an update: The original dealer told me today that Honda Canada has advised them to take a valve cover gasket from a new CRV in the yard and put it on mine incase the parts they have been using are defective.
As for the AC oil contamination, apparently there is oil all over the entire right side of my engine, including my AC unit. Apparently the metal on it has turned white it got so hot. Anyone think Honda will accept that if they fixed my problem anytime in the last four months my AC would still work? They did charge me $325 to change the thermoswitch last month that they told me was 'one' of the problems with my AC unit. I still need a coil, clutch assembly and compressor (apparently).

barrie1 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2005, 05:18:27 pm »

It sounds like the leak from the Valve Cover Gasket has been the cause of all the other damage as well. I would expect them to cover this damage as well myself. If not then I feel they are ripping you off. Its not like this is the only one that has had this problem at all.

articsteve · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2005, 06:02:48 pm »

Steve can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's the point he was trying to make.

Yes it was. Thanks.

This is the 1st power steering problem for Buick I have heard of so it has no bearing or revelance here with this thread.

Cheap GM out sourced parts are always relevant to any thread.

The original dealer told me today that Honda Canada has advised them to take a valve cover gasket from a new CRV in the yard and put it on mine incase the parts they have been using are defective.

That sounds so whacky because the second dealer indentified the problem as a VTEC solenoid leak which it probably is. That makes more sense than a valve cover gasket which has been replaced twice already. Two defective valve cover gaskets sounds like incredible bad luck. Wouldn't they spot any obvious defects when installing them?

Try this one on: You have this oil leak and it is incorrectly diagnosed as a leaky valve cover gasket which is rare on a 2 year old car with less than 100K, but it is actually a leaky VTEC solenoid unit. Original dealer damages valve cover mating surfaces when they pry the valve cover off the head because it is stuck on really good and doing the job. Consequently, any future gaskets won't work without orange silicone and lots of it.

Honda will be reluclant to let you switch dealers but you need a new dealer badly.

Anyone think Honda will accept that if they fixed my problem anytime in the last four months my AC would still work?

That will be a tough sell. If the AC has been broke with a dead compressor why did they change the thermoswitch? I just think you have a really horrendous Honda service department and not much is going to change until you kiss them goodbye.

(Message edited by Articsteve on August 16, 2005)

jonmar · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2005, 06:37:24 pm »

So assuming they have screwed up my solenoid unit, a problem I doubt they will admit causing, can you suggest the course of action I take? I'm sure the answer I receive will go a little like this: "No No, the solenoid is a completely separate problem, we didn't damage it"
As for the AC, they told me it required a thermoswitch, a coil and a clutch assembly. They also told me that in doing the clutch assembly the 'post' might break off the compressor requiring that to be replaced as well. They replaced the thermoswitch with 0 results and told me the other parts are on back order. The new dealership told me I had a ceased compressor.

exserviceguy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2005, 08:45:53 pm »

Hi Ho All,
I know that oil leaks on crowded engines in small engine bays can be hard to diagnose, but certainly not impossible and certainly quicker than our friend's unit here. Might someone politely suggest the dealer shampoo the engine and then add a container of engine oil dye. After a quick run on the highway the dye will glow under a black light taking out all the quess work. Swapping a valve cover gasket off of another vehicle makes no sense at all because even a careful tech is likely to damage it during the removal and reinstall.

barrie1 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2005, 09:48:59 pm »

I agree with Ex as I wouldn't want a used gasket on my engine either. This gasket once torqued down has its own shape pressed into it from the head it has been installed on.

articsteve · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2005, 10:19:19 pm »

So assuming they have screwed up my solenoid unit

Hello, why are you saying your VTEC solenoid unit is screwed up. Dealer 2 said it was leaking. It still functions, correct? From what I am reading Dealer # 1 jumped on the wrong diagnosis and assumed the leak was coming out of the valve cover gasket and is still stuck there. So basically you are getting nowhere.

As far as the AC goes I think you have had the bun with this dealer as I have never heard of replacing the thermo switch while the compressor is busted.

Why don't you reveal the dealers name or if that bothers you just their location. I'd love to know because this is simply crazy.

jonmar · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2005, 10:55:39 pm »

The 1st dealer is in Orangeville, and the second that did not want to help me was Brampton.
My concern with these guys is that it seems I am paying for them to experiment with my car. I don't think they know what the real problem is with my oil leak or my AC, but they are happy to have me pay the bill while they screw around. You guys have been great in suggesting what the problem is. But I don't see how I can possibly recover the money I have already paid them.

articsteve · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2005, 11:29:59 pm »

The 1st dealer is in Orangeville

I often drive home from TO past Orangeville. Thanks for the warning!

but they are happy to have me pay the bill while they screw around.

The first valve cover gasket you paid for right?, even though I agree with you that it should have been part of the powertrain warranty as this car is only a 03. You have not been asked to pay for the second gasket attempt and they are not asking you to pay for this third attempt? Right?

In any event, you will probably need to contact Honda Canada.

jonmar · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2005, 08:39:05 am »

No, my worry is that they will say 'oh well, it wasn't the gasket anymore, its a new problem, open your wallet' Also, my brand spanking new thermoswitch is worth $325.