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Author Topic: Winters and Rims  (Read 2791 times)

Offline tenpenny

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Winters and Rims
« on: August 12, 2005, 11:10:45 am »
Why does everyone feel that you need a set of rims for your winter tires?
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Offline mrthompson

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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2005, 11:13:31 am »
Winter tires should be mounted on a dedicated set of wheels for a number of reasons.  Primarily, to avoid damage to the bead of the tire during seasonal mounting/dismounting from the wheel.  Also, changeover is more convenient if you have winter tires mounted on dedicated wheels.  I do the changeover in my own driveway.  Cost is another issue.  Each time a tire is removed/remounted on a wheel, it must be balanced.  The mounting & balancing costs add up.
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Offline ktm525

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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2005, 11:18:28 am »
With a decent floor jack I can install my winter rims/tires in less than an hour. This is much less of a hassle than having to go to a tire store. While I am doing the changeover I have a peek at the brakes, suspension and  mark the tires being removed so they can be put in the next rotated position in the spring. Also I am assured that the wheels have been torqued correctly. "Buy the tools and dodge the fools".
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Offline tenpenny

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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2005, 12:03:02 pm »
I always assumed it was strictly economic.  Thanks.
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Offline ovr50

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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2005, 12:42:10 pm »
Also, some alloy wheels do not winter well (ie. they pit and corrode from salt and other winter stuff).  

I just bought a set of the standard base HL wheels for my '05 HL. They are not the black rims, thankfully. I don't like the black winter wheel look.
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Offline Bullet Blue

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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2005, 01:09:41 pm »
Neither do I. Even if it's winter, you still want your car to look decent.
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Offline tortoise

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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2005, 01:30:39 pm »
I actually like the ghetto black wheel look.  I think it looks a million times better than the cheap aftermarket hub-cap look.

My black p5 should look like the "Vader-Mobile" come november.

Also, a number of people -1 size their tires, saving money in the process, so in the end it's no more expensive to put the winter tires on steel rims.  

(Message edited by tortoise on August 12, 2005)
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Offline mrthompson

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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2005, 01:31:38 pm »
Black steel wheels look mean IMHO.
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Offline articsteve

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2005, 12:53:50 am »
Cost is another issue. Each time a tire is removed/remounted on a wheel, it must be balanced. The mounting & balancing costs add up.

Once upon a time wheel and tire service was a bargain; around 8 bucks a wheel.  In my area it is about $25. plus TAX  per wheel which includes balancing.  So that is $230 annually!
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Mdxtasy

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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2005, 02:27:29 am »
The black rims look fine...perhaps if you want to dress up your ride, a set of these for the winter rims will do the trick.  

http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER<>folder_id= 1408474396669581&ASSORTMENT<>ast_id=1408474396670271&bmUID=1123914383196&PRO DUCT<>prd_id=845524443279678&assortment=primary&fromSearch=true
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Offline tpl

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« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2005, 06:27:21 am »
I have actually changed car tires by hand... a manual bead breaker ( huge clamp like thing with a lever arm) two tire levers and a rubber hammer.
Loooonnnnng before wide low profile tires existed.
Even with just muscle power the amount of stretch and force that has to be applied to the tire bead to get it off or on just cannot be good for the tire. The machines that tire shops use undoubtedly apply much more force to the bead and sidewall than I ever could AND modern low profile tires much be even more difficult as there is less sidewall to be stretched.
The good thing about the tire changing machinery is that it looks as if it is less likely to damage the rims than a manual tire lever.

As for the basic black wheel thing...one could get a second set of cheaper alloys....

I am using the oem Borbet alloys for winter and aftermarket better looking (IMHO) for summer... this was in part forced on me as the oem wheels are 7" only and sensible summers need 7.5" or 8" for safety
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Offline Railton

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« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2005, 06:38:36 am »
Tenpenny,  
Another reason to use steel wheels in the Winter is that there is less chance you will find yor tires flat in the morning. Aluminum wheels shrink more than steel in very cold temps which may cause the seal to break between the tire and wheel. You'll wake up in the morning to go to work and you'll have to pump the tires up before driving off. This has happened to me when I use to live in Ottawa.
Railton
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Offline ovr50

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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2005, 07:17:52 pm »
Here's another issue when changing over wheels for winter tires - if you have one of the more sophisticated Tire Pressure Monitoring (TPM) systems, you may be faced with added costs for your winter rims, being the cost of 4 new valve stems. On the more sophisticated systems, eg. Murano SL, the TPM system has special valve stems with computer sensors built into the stem. These cost about $100 each. My Highlander has TPM but it is the less complex kind that works off the ABS system and does not require the special valve stems. Valve stems for mine are $4 each. The tire shop I use told me of a Murano owner, who last winter changed over to winter rims/tires, and found himself facing an additional $400 for valve stems (if he wanted the TPM system to work). Add that to the cost of tires for say 18 or 19" wheels (Murano again, also FX35/45 and others) and you would be looking at serious money for winter change-over (probably in excess of $2,000). I bet some ppl who should run winters, won't bother/want to pay the cost. Bet they didn't think of that one when they were all excited about that sexy new FX45 !!!!!!!!!
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Offline 03_ap1

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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2005, 07:12:29 pm »
they're cheap, usually about 50 bucks per rim, and I don't have to wait at the local tire shop every season.  Snowing out?  I just bolt them on in about 40 minutes.
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Offline tenpenny

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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2005, 08:03:11 pm »
Too funny.  One of the reasons given for using rims was cost and convenience.

So, You're talking about $50 per rim for valve stems.....so that's $200 there, plus the rims....all to save, let's see:  around here, for a 4 tire change/balance, it's $49.95.  So, you spend $200 plus the four rims, in order to save $50, twice a year for...how long do you keep your cars?  I keep mine for 8-10 years, but how long would a set of tires last anyway?

There seems to be only one real reason to have a set of winter rims:  to keep your alloy rims out of the crud.
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Offline johngenx

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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2005, 11:23:31 pm »
I plan on running 15" steel wheels on the Forester.  Why?

1. The tire size in 15" as opposed to 16" is a narrower, taller-sidewall tire.  Narrower and taller-sidewalls work better in the snow.

2. Ease of changeover.  Do it when I want, not when the tire shop has an opening.  A surprise big snow dump?  While my wife has breakfast I can get her ready for a safer commute.

3. Cost savings.  Not only do I save the cost of install/balance, but the 15" snow tires are quite a bit less to buy as well.  Bonus.

4. Save wear and tear on OE alloy wheels.  Not only "winter" wear, but the wear of tires on/off.  Also, if a curb is hit inadvertantly, it's easier to swallow a $50 steel wheel and cheaper 15" tire than a 16" OE alloy and 16" tire.

Those are my reasons.
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Offline ovr50

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« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2005, 12:10:24 am »
I have ordered and rec'd 4 of the base HL wheels/hubs/lugs from the dealer. I am now debating tires but am leaning toward a "H" rated 225/70/16 (standard size for my vehicle) in Continental WinterContacs. Surprisingly, many of the tire makers do not make 225/70/16s in more than a "Q" rating (which I don't want). Hancook also makes an acceptable and suitable tire but I think the Contis will be less noisey on the hiway. Seems early to be doing this, but I keep hearing of tire shortages this year. ???
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Mdxtasy

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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2005, 12:14:36 am »
I'll be starting my search for winter tires and rims soon.  Need those fancy tire pressure sensors I have on the MDX as well.  Probably going down to a 16" steelie.  Also need to get some rims/tires for the BMW as well...probably going 14" rims there with a possibility of getting studded tires.
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Offline 03_ap1

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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2005, 08:03:36 pm »
Quote
Too funny. One of the reasons given for using rims was cost and convenience.  

So, You're talking about $50 per rim for valve stems.....so that's $200 there, plus the rims....all to save, let's see: around here, for a 4 tire change/balance, it's $49.95. So, you spend $200 plus the four rims, in order to save $50, twice a year for...how long do you keep your cars? I keep mine for 8-10 years, but how long would a set of tires last anyway?  

There seems to be only one real reason to have a set of winter rims: to keep your alloy rims out of the crud.


At walmart, its 50 bucks per rim, including a valve stem - so 200 bucks for the set of rims.  Small price to pay for convenience of mounted them whenever I want, and yes, keeping my $3000 rims out of the crud.
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Offline johngenx

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« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2005, 10:42:23 pm »
No quality $50 switchovers in my neck of the woods.  To get a good GSP9700 road-force install/balance is about $85-90.  That's $170 per year.

Sure, it's not a big savings.  To me it's a bit of a bonus as I run two sets for the reasons outlined above...
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