Topic: Ford/Chrysler - Employee pricing discounts on 2005 models

[ovr50]

I'd say a person is getting pretty paranoid to think that Ford or any maker would produce fake invoices. Seems to me, that were proven, the bad press and negative feelings that would create would be far worse than selling vehicles with little profit. Just my opinion.

[Sterling]

Whats to keep Ford or any of the others from printing "thier own" invoice that just happens to be......Lets say $1.2-$2K more?

Wow.

[ovr50]

http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant

The above link to the Autoextremist.com is well worth the read. It takes a few minutes to read it but I think this encapsules a lot of what we're trying to say here. I'd be interested in your feedback. I think the piece has some very valid points in it. What do you think??  

You have to read it within a week of this post, as the Autoextremist stuff is only up to free access for one week.

[AVToller]

"Instead, they strapped their 30-day sales goggles on, disengaged their brains and in the process rendered anything from a Detroit car company as a commodity once and for all - one only to be considered if it's cheap enough."

That pretty well sums it up for me. If I were the sort who got bored with a car after a year or two, I might consider buying a "disposable" from GM if the price were low enough, but I want a car that will be reliable and viable over the long run. I also want extreme fuel economy. GM still seems to have nothing for me. It may turn out that the Cobalt, for example, is a good car, but I'm not willing to take the chance based upon GM's track (or is that trash) record.

[ovr50]

Right, the quote you pulled, avt, is the nub of it; but it's not just GM, all 3 are guilty of the same sins. It seems one problem is probably the fixation we have in the Western world, and particularily NA, with quarterly and annual reporting profit/loss periods were each one has to be "better" than the last one. I saw a ton of that thinking in my years as a stockbroker. Anything to get good quarterly numbers and to hell with the future.

[Sterling]

I agree with pretty much everything in that article.

But Avtoller, I have to ask in all sincerity: As someone that wants nothing to do with GM's products, why do you even care what they do?

[AVToller]

Basically, I dislike seeing anyone, or any company, fail when they could succeed.  

If the Big Three (but GM in particular) continue along their current path:

1. There will be a lot of ecomonic displacement. I am retired and never worked in the industry, but there are many families which will experience ecomomic hardship while the economy adjusts. Sure, many of the workers will be able to get jobs in the new Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc plants that are built to replace GM, Ford, D-C, but it will take time.

2. A lot of people are less savvy about cars than the typical member of this board, and ARE still putting their hard earned money into substandard vehicles produced as a result of the "30-days sales", quarterly profit mentality. Many leap on these "great deals" not realizing that the resale value of their new cars will tank as a result. Again, this does not affect me directly, but I do still care. My next door neighbour has a young family and a Jimmy. The repair costs have been eating him alive. I hate seeing that happen to a decent, hardworking guy like Ron. It is worth very little to trade, and he can barely afford to keep it in good working condition.

[stodge]

I have to agree with avtoller: GM has nothing that interests me. In a world where designers are pumping out beautiful (ok, well good looking) cars, GM puts out the new Malibu, Cobalt et al, that all look like rejected Korean designs from the early 90s. They seem to hold no interest in fuel economy - none of their newspaper ads I have seen recently mention the economy of the vehicles they advertise. Their latest small SUV has a 3L engine, which is what, 25 years old and puts out 150 horses? Go and strike a deal with Honda, and buy their technology for goodness sake!

[claudster]

I agree with Avtoller too.I have worked in the industry and have seen what shortsightedness and price pressures can do.

[tpl]

I agree with Stodge and therefore with AVT.

they dont make anything I would buy. I am not quite retired and have one more car purchase to go. I dont even see any concept cars from the big 3 I would buy.... but for each of them:
I might buy the current Euro Focus if Ford sold it.... but nothing they sell in NA... the 500 is too big and the Mustang is just not interesting to me
I might buy a MB B classe badged as a Mopar product.... but nothing else they sell in  NA... none of the other cars with MB bits are interesting

GM make no even remotely interesting car except the cadillac CTS and like it or not GM , I associate caddies with white belts and "leisure suits"

So I guess it will be a Sube or another BMW an that will be one less customer for the big 3.

[Turbo Bob]

Tpl the new Lotus Europa will be there in a few years, hang in there!!