Topic: Oil Change Advise for all DIYers !!!

[ovr50]

http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/classifieds/automotive/7485358.htm

Some good pointers on what NOT to do.

[barrie1]

Sorry Ovr i am missing it here as the Better Oils and extra lubricants that are in  some of the OIls of today should coverr that much time length of draining an engine. They are supposed to leave a film of protection on the inside of your engine. I would rather let my oil pan drain much longer then it gets on a oil rack. Getting the last wee bit out only helps the engine even further if you do it right. To me this person did. If he's useing good oil he was alright.

[Sterling]

"Those are what we call "idiot lights," Ken. And they're speaking directly to you, buddy."

[ovr50]

"Getting the last wee bit out only helps the engine even further if you do it right. To me this person did. If he's useing good oil he was alright."

He drianed the oil, than started up the engine and ran it dry for a minute - you're saying that's OK to do? - think I'll stick with Ken&Ray's opinion on this one..

[barrie1]

For a very short time duration there will be no damage at all and I would rather have all of the dirty oil out then only a portion. I understand your thought but thats what good oil products are for. They do there job even when the level is low.

[Sterling]

"Those are what we call "idiot lights," Barrie. And they're speaking directly to you, buddy."

[tpl]

That "last cup"  probably contains less than a teaspoon of crud. the new filter will deal with that.

Now if you were to use a dentist type vacuum thingy to clean the bottom of the oil pan after draining that would be difficult, messy but would make sense to me.

I am sure a modern engine could stand a minute off load with no oil but wht would you risk it?

A better tactic might be to  change the filter a second time after the first 1000 Km on the new oil. Let the fresh detergent additives in the new oild scour that last bits of crud into the filter and then change it again...

[ovr50]

"They do there job even when the level is low"

Well, I think you are wrong on this one, Barrie. Running an engine for a even a minute with NO OIL in it at all has to be worse than getting that last few teaspoons of dirty oil out.  

I'm not letting you service my car anymore..

[barrie1]

It sounds to me like very few people here trust the oil products they use in their engines as if you did we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Whats the sense of changing your oil if you can't get all of it out. I would prefer to let the pan drain for a much longer time period then doing this but if there is no chance of that happening I would do this for about 30 secs only, not a full minute as stated. Sterling if you want to get offensive then go ahead as I will reply to you as well. Maybe you should learn about the idiot lights before you throw any shots further. If you really know how they work then explain your idiotic statement to us. Idiot lights are useless in 99% of all cars.

[articsteve]

The by the lake BC dude and the dude from Ontario's hinterland are joining forces to SHOUT that this "running" the last bit of oil out of a motor is NUTS!

[Sterling]

Explain my statement? Sure:

Anybody that would advocate running an engine with no oil in it is an idiot.

Clear enough?

[barrie1]

Sterling to me you are a idiot as its very obvious that you really don't have a clue to the workings of a automotive engine. You seem to want to take part of something that someone says and slag them. Grow some brain cells before you post next as that is pathetic on your part. You threw the 1st shot don't expect me to sit here and take your silly crap.

[Sterling]

Ovr, when you first posted, did you ever think that someone would try to defend the guy in that article?


(Message edited by Sterling on June 25, 2005)

[ovr50]

Nope.  

Perhaps those that think this practise is good for the engine could post some factual references (not just opinions) that back up their POV??

[AVToller]

Now let's see. Oil companies and independent labs all agree that the worst time for engine wear is the first few seconds after starting the car since the oil is relatively thick and not well distributed in the engine, and therefore is not lubricating very well. This is put forth as one of the most compelling reasons for the use of synthetic oil.

It logically follows that running a warm engine with NO OIL for a minute or so will do NO HARM. I see I need more education on how internal combustion engine functions.

[ovr50]

I'm kind of surprised I didn't get dumped on for saying "Ken&Ray" instead of "Bob&Ray"..

Ross - na, you're doing fine in my books.

[barrie1]

Many times over the years I have seen an empty dip stick come out of an engine that has just come in off the highway or in the city and not have a drop of oil on the stick. I have added all kinds of oil on many occasions but many of these engines went on to run many thousands of miles after. Its amazing just how far an engine will go with very little oil before it seizes. I don't advocate running an engine more then 15 to 30 secs to get the last bit of waste oil out. It does help and won't hurt the average engine. There is always a film of lubricant on all of the moving parts unless you push it too far.

[ovr50]

"Getting the last wee bit out only helps the engine even further if you do it right. To me this person did. If he's useing good oil he was alright."

Barrie, that's your comment from your first post on this topic. The person in the "Bob&Ray" story ran his engine dry of oil for "about a minute". Yet in your post above you say:  "I don't advocate running an engine more then 15 to 30 secs to get the last bit of waste oil out."

Now, there's some difference between saying the guy "did it right" at a minute and "not advocating more than 15 to 30 secs". Secondly, I did a Google search of oil change procedures. I read about a dozen of the searched results, some of which were for Corvettes and other expensive cars. Not one of the those procedures suggested starting the engine for any time once the old oil was removed. Several acknowledged that a small amount of old oil would remain inside, but stated to not worry about it.  

So, you say starting the engine is the correct procedure although none of the searches I did say to do that. You contradict yourself on time if you do start the engine.  

I do NOT think that running an engine dry of oil for 15 seconds, assuming decent oil was used, is going to cause engine seizure. But I DO think that starting the engine after you have drained the oil and running it for a minute is far worse for the engine than leaving a small amount of old oil inside.  

Using facts (not just your opinion), prove me wrong..I think you cannot.

[barrie1]

Pretty hard to argue anything now that the article is not available. I have never said it is the right procedure to do. There's also a difference between one mans minute and the next persons as well. I have had people request this on rare occasions over the years. From personal experience I have never seen a engine damaged from doing this. I don't do this on mine but can understand why some people do it.

[ovr50]

This is my last post on this topic.  

Just above you say - "I have never said it is the right procedure to do". }

In your first post of this thread you said -  "Getting the last wee bit out only helps the engine even further if you do it right. To me this person did. If he's useing good oil he was alright."}

If those two statements of your own do not contradict each other, I don't know what does. It is impossible to discuss/argue with someone who can't understand their own statements - so I won't do it.  

And, yes, the article is now gone as I believe it was a news article and it must have disappeared automatically. If there were any point to it, which I don't think there is, I know where to get it from again.  

This matter is closed for me. I rest my case.