Author Topic: Plug wires  (Read 2562 times)

Offline walter

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Plug wires
« on: June 04, 2005, 11:30:00 am »
Great Forums - cant believe it took me so long to discover them!
I've changed the plugs in my 97 RAV4 to the NGK Iridium (simply because they were on sale and because I didnt have to gap them, I am NOT a mechanic!) and noticed a difference immediately. Should I change all the wires too? What is the life of these and is there any degredation over time?

Roadrunner

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« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2005, 12:26:38 pm »
Walter,
I've yet to come across a spark plug out of a box or package that didn't need the gap readjusted. Do yourself a favor and check them to ensure the gap is right and also the heat range is right for that engine.  
Plug wires can last the life of the engine (sometimes). Personally, I wouldn't change out the OEM wires unless I Knew the spark wasn't getting to the plugs. There are variables that can deteriorate the wire insulation such as constant driving in high temperatures. Removing the plug wire without having a grip on the boot itself, can break the wire.  
At times, selecting a different plug and installing it can result in a smoother, more powerful (feeling) ride, but can have an adverse effect on the gas mileage.
No doubt a couple will disagree.(Posters, I mean)
There's always one.

Offline barrie1

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« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2005, 03:07:46 pm »
Roadrunner is correct as the plugs should be inspected for the correct gap when being put in. I would also highly recommend putting Dielectric grease on the wire ends as it will help keep any moistuure out of it. The wires will not seize on the plug ends as well when you use the grease as over time it will happen. The wires may still be good as they can last a long time but a set of taylor made will set you back around $60.00 for a good set. When in doubt change them.

Offline inco

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« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2005, 04:35:15 pm »
Both Barrie and RR offer good advice and I agree that there may not be the need to change the plug wires - BUT they are eight years old now and it won't hurt.

You may not notice any difference now that we have the warmer weather but come next winter I think you will be able to tell.

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2005, 07:27:02 pm »
Your ign. system will wear out over time.  Plugs and wires are the most obvious items and should be changed.  I do my plugs every 60000k's.  All plugs need to be gapped to mfgr. spec.  You will find a white info sticker on the underside of the hood with this spec.  A fresh plug will go a long way to help ignite the fuel/air mixture and usually results in a smoother idle and better fuel economy.  Your ign wires are due based on years of service.  As the wires get old the resistance increases and the flow of current has to work harder to get to the plugs.  Fresh wires will help out as they wear out considering their enviroment.  I do not understand how new plugs will cause an advers effect on fuel milage??????
I would also inquire about a new fuel filter and change the trans. fluid as well.  My 2 cents.
I miss my motorcycle!

Offline barrie1

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« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2005, 10:50:29 pm »
Eric I would think if the plugs were not gapped correctly then they could use more fuel then required.

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2005, 01:12:30 pm »
Well, yeah as a result of weaker ignition of the mix.  I guess you would get less output on the volume of fuel/air entering the CChamber.

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« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2005, 01:26:22 pm »
Re: fuel mileage (in my previous post).
Correct me if I'm wrong, But if you install a plug of the incorrect heat range (ie., hotter)  for your engine wouldn't that make for an inefficient fuel burning plug? Or am I dreaming? Does a hotter plug require more fuel to produce the same energy as a (cooler) plug? If I'm not, then there is a basis for affected fuel mileage there too.  'confused smiley here'

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2005, 11:53:16 am »
The term "heat range" refers to the relative temperature of the core nose of a spark plug. The words "hot" or "cold," when used in referencing spark plugs, are often a source of confusion and misunderstanding, since normally a hot spark plug is used in a cold engine (low horsepower) and a cold plug in a hot engine (high horsepower). The terms actually refer to the heat rating or thermal characteristics of the plug; more specifically, the plug's ability to dissipate heat from its firing end into the engine cooling system. A cold plug transfers heat rapidly away from its firing end into the cooling system and is used to avoid core nose heat saturation where combustion chamber or cylinder head temperatures are relatively high. A hot spark plug has a much slower rate of heat transfer and is used to avoid fouling where combustion chamber or cylinder head temperatures are relatively low. The primary means of adjusting heat range are by varying the length of the core nose and the alloy material used in the electrodes. Hot plugs have a relatively long insulator nose with a long heat transfer path. Cold plugs have a much shorter insulator nose and thus, transfer heat more rapidly. The heat range of a plug does not affect the power output of an engine. Rather, it allows the plug to function as designed for the duration of the racing event. In other words, once the correct heat range is found that prevents fouling and does not contribute to the pre-ignition or detonation, a change to a hotter or colder plug will not have a positive effect on engine performance

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« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2005, 02:25:57 pm »
No wonder I was confused! Thanx Eric.

Offline articsteve

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« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2005, 10:01:03 am »
Hey Eric, did you really write all that? Five stars.

Road when I increase the compression on my 2 strokes (sleds/jet skis) which is easy to do I always go down one level in spark plug heat range or run the risk of putting a hole in the piston.

Like I will go from n BRES8 to a BRES9.  Higher you go the cooler the plug.
“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,”     Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2005, 11:32:23 am »
It is part of a paper I wrote for a friend with his first new car.  "Someone" at the office was chatting to him about heat ranges so I wrote a quick note on the subject.  Back in 83 I sent away for a FAQ/Product knowledge book from NGK and some of the info comes from there.  Plugs have actually changed very little over the years.

Offline walter

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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2005, 12:22:21 pm »
Thanks for all the info! Much appreciated! Im learning already. I went with the NGK's because they were both listed as available as OEM replacement for the RAV4 and stated no-gapping necessary right on the package. In fact, (no longer have the box) it enclosed a sheet that stated something about avoiding gapping and if absolutely necessary then to proceed with extreme care and not to use some kind of common gapping tool...because it can easily damage the electrode...cant recall.  

For someone like me, those were welcome words...but now I question the packaging??!!

Offline barrie1

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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2005, 02:55:40 pm »
All plugs do come gapped from the factory but as they fit different engines this why you have to check the gap as not all engines have the same requirements. It varies from .035 to .065 depending on the model of engine.

Offline articsteve

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« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2005, 04:22:04 am »
from .020 in 2 strokes

Offline barrie1

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« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2005, 12:19:19 pm »
Yes that is correct as well.

Offline reggin

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« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2005, 12:56:55 pm »
*sigh*

NGK's come pre-gapped to the correct tolerance for your vehicle - You don't need to re-gap them.  What you should do however, is check the gap to make sure they weren't dropped during shipping and the gap changed.  In all my experience with imports and NGK pre-gapped plugs, I have never had to re-gap them, but I always check.

If it's running smooth, you're okay.

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2005, 09:35:54 am »
That is so wrong.  The engine can run smooth even if the plug is slightly out of gap.  I have never found plugs to be within spec from the package.  I have a motorcycle, 2 cars and a boat.

Mind you...with the advances in engine tech I'm sure a bit of a mis gap would still allow the car to run ok.  I wonder if the lumber yars sell pre cut wood for my home. ;)

Offline articsteve

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« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2005, 12:58:53 pm »
That is so wrong. The engine can run smooth even if the plug is slightly out of gap.

Not entirely.  I find that I rarely need to re gap plugs.  The size of the gap has more to do with the strength of the ignition.  A larger gap is good but you need the corresponding ignition to give it the right lite.

Offline ericthejet

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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2005, 07:07:26 pm »
I agree AS.  If you mod out your plant(engine) usually the first thing is a stronger ign. setup.  Civics have a great system, but it is weak compared with the options available to the consumers out there.  MSD makes a dilly of a system, and before Nortel dropped me and 2000 of my friends I was considering a few mods for my little scooter.  Alas, the Civic she stays stock for now.