Topic: I know it is spring but can I ask about winter?

[21Rouge]

We recently got a new small car hatchback with the standard 16" wheels. We decided not to get the AWD option, in part because AWD doesnt come with a 5 speed which we wanted; there was a slight loss in HP and of course it is more expensive. And by chance while we were debating the purchase I read an article which sang the praises of good winter tires. The author indicated that having good winter tires was very much like having AWD. I wonder if you could give me a primer on such tires.  

First are 'winter' tires really up to the hype?

Approximately how much money are we talking about...with rims?  

Related to this is the lifespan of such tires.  

In Ontario is the 'winter' season November to March? Can they be driven safely on dry surfaces?


One just stores them in...one's garage?  

Okay why is it the case that I see cars with winter tires..I think they are....with no hub caps?

Thanks for the advice.

(Message edited by boxgrover on May 24, 2005)

[Mdxtasy]

"First do 'winter' tires really up to the hype?"

Yes.  Worth every penny

"Approximately how much money are we talking about...with rims?"  

Price will depend on the rims you choose (aluminum or steel) and the tire you put on as well as the size of rim you pick.  Often times, you can downsize the rim from a 16" to a 15" with no clearance issues (check with the tire guy to confirm your car has no issues).  A lot of people recommend downsizing the rim 1" as well as going with a little narrower tire (to increase pressue of the contact patch).  As a rule, budget about $600 - $1000.

Related to this is the lifespan of such tires.  

This is dependant on tire selection and how much you drive.  Based on my experience, a good 3 winters or 50000km is expected.

In Ontario is the 'winter' season November to March? Can they be driven safely on dry surfaces?  

Yes.  Don't expect high speed stability but the tires can be run on dry pavement.

One just stores them in...one's garage?  

Yes.

Okay why is it the case that I see cars with winter tires..I think they are....with no hub caps?  

Why spend extra money putting on hubcaps on your winter tires?  You aren't going to a car show or anything...you're trying to keep the shiny side up in the winter.  

(Message edited by mdxtasy on May 24, 2005)

[weebl]

First are 'winter' tires really up to the hype?

Yes, and I don't consider it hype.  Even with the limited snow we see in Vancouver, I still find it a huge benefit to have here for several reasons:

- ice/cold weather - rubber stays soft (maintaning grip), unlike summer or all seasons which turn to a hockey puck like material in cold weather.
- when it actually does snow here, I don't get stranded or slide off the road like most people here, plus I can steer my car around these dangerous people
- overall cost of having a summer and winter set of tires isn't much more in terms of cost.  Say on a certain car, you would need new tires every 60,000 kms, you could have paid for two all season sets one after the other, or a winter and summer set, and the 60,000 on each is racked up during winter or summer respectively

Okay why is it the case that I see cars with winter tires..I think they are....with no hub caps?

Because many people have downsized and/or moved from aluminum summers to steel winters and they don't want to spend the extra money on hubcaps when the car will be dirty all winter anyway.  Not everyone will leave them uncovered, I have my cheap Wal-Mart covers on mine serving just fine as winter hubcaps - better looking than black, didn't cost much, and I wouldn't care if they cracked when if I slide into a curb.

Now what type of winter tire depends on your budget, driving style, climate and the car itself.

[nissparts]

Yes by all means purchase winters.
Depending on where in Ont you live and if it is allowed studded tires may a consideration for you too.
The rubber tire manf assc is also recommending 4 winters as well; some ppl still only get two but for the best in traction and safety 4 is the way to go.
Don't waste money on wheel covers unless you can't bare the sight of those ugly black rims; some of the aftermarket wheels don't accept covers anyway.

[tpl]

Winter tires do something that AWD does NOT DO.

You STOP much better and faster.... like up to several car lengths better.

Winter tires nowdays are defined by a symbol of a snowflake in a mountain emblem embossed into the sidewall.

Even the worst tires with this symbol are better in the cold than any all-season.... the best give quite unbelieveable grip on ice and snow.  

Ideally you put the winters on when the daytime temps consistently get down to +10 and take them off again when the daytimes temps get up to +10 consistently. Not always possible to be so picky. In Toronto I do weekend after Thanksgiving until Easter or the weekend the clocks change whichever is later... havent been caught out yet

Winter tires dont look like tractor tires any more... there is a lot of techno magic in the compounds and the tread patterns... some look really weird and many are directional.

Store in your garage by all means... ideally it should be cool and dark and no electrical equpiment ( motors ) nearbye...but dont worry about it.  Some tire specialists will store the wheels and tires you are not using in their warehouse for a few bucks a year.

Only getting two should be illegal and reputable tire shops would not sell you only two.  Morty or Capiracer would have to confirm this but if you had two punctures you'd want your two remaining winters on the BACK on an fwd car even though that sounds counter intuitive.

my 2c

[21Rouge]

I really appreciate your detailed informative replies.

[johngenx]

We bought our Forester at the end of December, and no snow tires were available.  It was on all-seasons, and despite AWD, ABS and LSD, it was useless on ice.  Okay, barely, on snow.

My "one wheel drive" RWD Mercedes is on studded snow tires and could run away from the AWD Forester.  And stop in half the distance.

Snow tires make a HUGE impact on AWD.

[Craig]

Which hatch?  Matrix/Vibe?  Had one.  Put a set of 195/65R15 Nokian Hakkapeliitta's on 15" steelies.  OEM tires are 205/55R16, iirc.  Some bastard stole the car, but we travelled through a few storms with that setup.  They won't save you from a completely boneheaded move, but you'll climb hills you could not climb with A/S tires, stop faster, and be better prepared than the next guy out there.  Which is good, because he's probably sliding towards you.

[21Rouge]

Which hatch? Matrix/Vibe? Had one.

You are psychic. I do have an '05 5 speed Vibe with the standard 16" tires.

[Craig]

Not psychic.  The Vibtrix is one of the few "hatches" to come standard with 16" wheels.  In fact, I can't think of another.

Good choice of vehicle.  I prefer the Toyota styling, but the wizardry of your choice is that you went into a GM dealership and came out with a Toyota.

That said, winter tires for the thing won't turn it into a great winter driving car.  They will only make it acceptable.  My wife took us off the road, travelling a little fast for the conditions, and that's with the Nokian tires.

Since it left us *sniff* we replaced it with the AWD X-Trail.  We do a lot of winter driving.  I have snow tires for the X-Trail, too.

Unless you are really performance-oriented, you don't need 16" snow tires.  Get a set of hub-centric 15" steel wheel and mount P195/65R15 winter tires to those.  Changing the tires becomes easy to do by yourself, or cheaper at the shop.  The steelies should cost you about $50 each, and save you about $10 every changeover, because you don't need to remount and balance on your existing rims.  Besides, 16" snow tires are more expensive.

Actually, a good deal right now are the Hankook W440 tires from forum sponsor TireTrends.com.  $64 per tire plus $55 per wheel.  Under $600 for the set, including taxes and shipping.  I bought the snows for the X-Trail at the end of the season from a local shop and saved myself about $100.

[r4man]

Is there a good A/S mud and snow tire that really can be used all year on a SUV.

[weebl]

Only one that comes to mind that people generally regard well and is severe winter service rated is the BF Goodrich T/A KO.  Someone with SUV tire experience will be better able to give you their impressions on it, though.