Author Topic: "Big 3" fate in the hands of? (Read 12760 times)

sparky · « **Reply #120 on:** May 27, 2005, 09:50:03 am »

No doubt about it, if you have a valuable skill that's in short supply, you'll do well. There were Porsches, Vipers and M Beemers all over Kanata before the tech bubble burst. Unfortunately, a lot of these guys are now selling shoes and driving used Civics.

ovr50 · « **Reply #121 on:** May 27, 2005, 09:58:30 am »

Sparky - with respect, if you have to go back to 1850s (Dicken's time) to justify unions, I'd say your case is slim to zero. Of course, in the 1800s there were tremendous abuses of workers, but that's not what we're talking about here. Helll, women were non-persons and couldn't even vote then either. We're talking today here and the need for the unions to be part of the solution for GM & Ford, not part of the problem, which they are now.

safristi · « **Reply #122 on:** May 27, 2005, 10:56:33 am »

What!! WHen the hull did Women get the VOTE!!!!!! was this Ms Briquettes doing!!!?

? or B.S (Belinda StrayLeft)....next we'll be having opposite sex marriages.......

......"Itwas the Unions best of times IT IS the Unions worst of times" Prime Minister MARTIN CHUZZLEWITT !!!!in a Tale of TWO Ditherers....

sparky · « **Reply #123 on:** May 27, 2005, 11:35:23 am »

Ovr, I know times have changed. But don't you ever wonder why? You have to go back to a time when unions were nonexistent to take their influence out of the market. Employers did not suddenly offer decent pay, safe condtions and job security out of the goodness of their hearts. Yes, today's unions resist change, to everyone's detriment. But everyone who works for a living owes a debt to the labour movement. In fact, by helping to create the mass market, the unions also did a huge favour to their old adversary, the bosses who employed goons in their failed attempt to crush the movement. Genuine, sustained prosperity is not accomplished by transferring even more wealth to the top 1 per cent.

safristi · « **Reply #124 on:** May 27, 2005, 12:00:30 pm »

He and his Multi Billion dollar FOUNDATION...begs to differ......

ovr50 · « **Reply #125 on:** May 27, 2005, 01:59:42 pm »

OK, let's stop with all the history stuff, and talk about what the unions have to contribute to financial solutions for GM and Ford today. That's really what we're talking about here and my point is that the unions (UAW mainly) have to do their share to see that the Big2 survive. So far, the UAW has not indicated a willingness to be part of the solution.

sparky · « **Reply #126 on:** May 27, 2005, 02:09:46 pm »

You're right about that, Ovr.
I just think a lot of people, especially younger folks, disparage unions without really knowing why they exist and what they've accomplished.

ovr50 · « **Reply #127 on:** May 27, 2005, 02:23:26 pm »

I agree with that statement on the historical significance of the unions - they definitely were needed at one time and they did accomplish a lot in the work place betterment area.

Hopefully, they will understand the nature of the problem today and be willing to help again. As is seen from the airlines, Chapter 11 causes a lot of ppl to lose, including the unions. The old saying "you can't get blood from a stone" applies here, if the companies go Chapter 11 route, the pension/legacy/health benefits may be lost anyway. Company and union needs to cooperate for the good of both.

sparky · « **Reply #128 on:** May 27, 2005, 02:50:46 pm »

Again I agree, Ovr., except for the "were needed at one time" part. Unions are like the police, costly, occasionally annoying, but awfully handy to have around when they're needed.

eddy4 · « **Reply #129 on:** May 27, 2005, 10:11:36 pm »

Why dont we talk about how Ford was going to slash costs by spinning off Visteon in 2000 to eliminate costly Union jobs. Visteon would stand alone and somehow shed the burden of the stifling ford management and expensive wages.
It seems that 5years later Visteon is on the verge of shutting down and unable to pay its bills . This is of course due to the fact that Ford has been paying less and less for the parts Visteon has made for them since 2000 , and as material costs , utility costs etc continue to rise.

It should come as no suprise then that Ford now has to bail out this company to the tune of 1.15 BILLION DOLLARS, or lose its largest parts supplier.
Since no other company would be fool enough to enter into any supply deal with Ford at this time , they are stuck.

Watch this happen with more of the mistreated suppliers to Ford and GM .

I think Ford and GM both will go throgh some drastic changes in the next 8 to 10 months

ovr50 · « **Reply #130 on:** May 28, 2005, 12:13:12 am »

"I think Ford and GM both will go throgh some drastic changes in the next 8 to 10 months"

Yep, I'd second that comment. Watch it happen, it's coming.