Topic: "Big 3" fate in the hands of?

[barrie1]

You state the Sunfire GT is a Basket case, many people who have bought them do think the opposite. Most of the owners have had some very good value from them in long life and service as they have been a better car then you realize. There has been more complaints about the Ford Focus here lately then the Sunfire at any time. The Ford has improved greatly in the last few years so you should enjoy it for some time to come.

[A4_tom]

J-Body's simple mechanicals are what made these cars lasted for 2 decades. You can also get one cheap right now as dealers are loading with both Pursuit and Sunfire. There is a large dealer chain advertising Sunfire for $11k with 0 down.

[eddy4]

The sky is falling ! , The sky is falling !

[ovr50]

Eddy - in your new avatar, that looks to be a '68 or so Mustang GT w American Torque Thrust mags - IOW, very like the car Lt. Frank Bullitt drove. Is it or or my older eyes deceiving me?

[barrie1]

A4 Tom you are right on that these cars can last for many years with the proper maintenance. They are a very good value to buy right now as the price is extremely good.

[A4_tom]

Cheaper than car rental when a Sunfire sells for $11k with plenty to bargain.

[npc]

i think Ford and DC is coming out of their rut. Ford under new managment seems to be making some moves to release better than crud vehicles. At least that would get ppl in the showrooms. Chrysler is milking the Hemi for all its worth. I dont know how sales are but at least Chrysler is now appealing.
GM well ... shooting themselves in the foot. Of course none of these 3 are doing good at the moment with GM and Ford being downgraded financially.
I think the big 3 should really rethink their volume numbers. They have an obscene amount of cars on the lots. It might be great when they were flying off the lot but they are simply burning a whole in the pockets of its dealers. And what about the rebate problem. Low resale reflects how the car is devalued at sale - if they can make a profit when they give u 3k back, why price it so high to start with?
I think they've dug a whole too big to get out in this decade. It will take many years ahead to change how ppl perceive the big3

[powman]

"The average CAW worker makes about $67 an hour Canadian".

People, please tell me I am not the only one who has a problem with this.

[Snowman]

$67/hr sounds right when you factor in benefits and pension. A high school educated Miner 1 in Sudbury has a similar remuneration package. We factor $130k/yr in our feasibility studies. There is no way any industry operating in a global economy will survive with theses wage burdens.  

Many industries in North America will move overseas to remain competitive. I am always puzzled as to why the management of union organizations fails to see this as detrimental to their own existence.

[powman]

Exactly Snowy...5 votes for you.

Soon the only thing left will be jobs for University/College educated on one end and low paying McJobs at the other end.  If unions continue to be make excessive demands, the can say goodbye to the decent wage jobs they have now.  

Let's practice...Would you like that Supersized sir???

[sparky]

I fail to see why businesses think it's a good idea to lay off their own customers and send their jobs overseas. Henry Ford, who was never known to throw his money around, knew he couldn't succeed if his workers couldn't afford to buy the cars they were building.

[Snowman]

Back in the ‘30’s there was no global economy or foreign competition. The only way for that concept to work today would be by imposing protectionism tariffs or let the US dollar fall another 25%.

[powman]

Sparky...i agree, it would be bad for the economy if there were no auto industry in N.America.  Less people to buy the products and so on.  But come on, $67 an hour?!?!  University educated health care workers (OT's, PT's, Audiologists, SLP's, Nurses) make half that.

[sparky]

Powman, Snowy,
I don't have a solution. I'm just troubled by the long-term effects of this race to the bottom in terms of wages and working conditions. So companies save a few bucks per unit by producing overseas. So who then buys their product? Not the faithful staff they abandoned in North America; they're unemployed. Not their new workers in the Third World; starvation wages are the whole point of employing them. I'm just trying to picture the economy if these trends continue unchecked. Would the top 1% of earners just sell stuff to each other while everyone else polishes their shoes, washes their cars and flips their burgers for them? The post-WWII era saw the greatest period of genuine, widespread and sustained prosperity in the history of mankind. Wages skyrocketed, and so did profit, because people could afford to consume the products they were producing. I'm struggling to understand the appeal of ending that rather sweet arrangement.

[Mdxtasy]

Pick your poison....layoff workers and keep the company afloat or keep all staff on the payroll and go into bankruptcy.  They are extreme cases but nonetheless, the scenario isn't that far off for some of the automakers.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Sparky, agree with your early post that only a fool would admit the union would give concessions at this point. Workers don't want to lose anything, so the union will appear stong. Behind closed doors, deals will happen, and they'll be presented as win-win or 'we'll give up X, but we'll keep job security' to the workers and media.

Snowman, I don't know what people are thinking. Every other manufacturing industry is moving to China and their auto sector is red hot - doesn't take a rocket scientist...

But I think Buzz in an utter moron. So nothing will really surprise me.

[safristi]

They say it's a new "Paradigm" wouldn't give ya 4 nickels ta rub together after GLOWBALLISATION takes over..it's all goin' Nuclear...FORD will have to merge with GM to survive "at FOGM survival is JOB1...have you driven FOGM..ribbit today!!???"..just think of the "Hybreeds!!" that marriage will produce......WindBLOWSMobile!!!! the FOCette !!! any MORE?}

[mr914]

Anyone know the profit margin on a Sunfire versus a Civic?  I'd like to see that.

I know Honda averages the highest profit margin in the auto industry.  If the margin on a Civic is $3k and the margin on a Sunfire is $500, who do you want to be, GM or Honda?

I'm sure that people like the Sunfire and Cavalier.  There was a man in Germany that let himself be canabalized.  Different strokes for different folks.

[powman]

I don't think it is really that complicated.  How about a reasonable and fair wage?  Does $67 an hour seem reasonable and fair for someone with a high school diploma?  

In fairness, the executives at these companies need to take a big cut in pay too.  They would have more credibility if they did that.

[sparky]

About the GM J-cars: When VW trotted out the original Beetle year after year, it was evidence of practicality and thrift. When GM comes up with a design that remains more-or-less competitive for over two decades, all they get is grief. I had a J-car 'way back in the mid-80s. It wasn't bad then. I test drove a Z-24 a couple of years ago. It wasn't for me, but it still wasn't all that awful.
About $67 an hour: What's the source of that figure and what does it include? Total estimated cost to the company of employing a worker? It sure isn't salary. By the same token, my boss probably makes even more than that. I'd rather see it go to a deserving, hardworking factory worker than to him.