Author Topic: "To hell with JD Power" MB said  (Read 1338 times)

A4_tom

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« on: May 10, 2005, 05:31:32 pm »
BARCELONA - DaimlerChrysler is debating whether to abandon its goal to place its Mercedes-Benz brand first in the prestigious J.D. Power and Associates car quality survey, Mercedes chief Eckhard Cordes said on Friday.
"We are carefully analysing whether this is a reasonable goal or not, and then we will answer the question once we have finished our analysis," he told reporters on the sidelines of an industry conference here.
The premium Mercedes-Benz brand has been pulling out all the stops to address quality problems that have dented its elegant image and raised doubts about its avowed goal of topping J.D. Power U.S. survey of initial quality in new cars by 2006.
"In order to become (number) one in J.D. Power, it is not only about hardware quality. It also has to do with the American taste, how they want cars," Cordes had earlier told the Automotive News conference.
A car's ratings may be marked down, for instance, if buyers feel they have too many functional buttons on the steering wheel, he said.
"One has to carefully analyse whether with a global car it is really advisable to strive for being J.D. Power number one," he added.
"If we come to the conclusion that the clear answer is 'yes', we want to be number one. But you see that we are still debating this, or whether we are better off with number two or number 3. That is still open."
Should the company decide a second-place ranking is acceptable, that does not mean that cars sold under the Mercedes brand are worse than those sold under the top-ranked brand, he added.
Cordes did not specify which J.D. Power survey he was referring to. In the J.D. Power 2004 Initial Quality Survey of auto nameplates, Mercedes-Benz ranked No. 10 with 106 problems per 100 vehicles. Toyota's premium Lexus brand ranked No. 1 with 87 problems.
On other subjects, Cordes said Mercedes had done extensive analysis on building an engine plant in Eastern Europe but then decided not to proceed for now.
"At least for the time being as a premium carmaker, we have decided that we can continue to operate our plants, our factories in Germany, and we have invested here," he said.
"But I add I am definitely not in a position here today to exclude this option for many years to come."
He said he still saw "enormous potential to take costs out of the system in our German plants, which should keep us fit".
He played down prospects for exporting Mercedes-Benz cars from China, where they are about to start being assembled for the domestic market.
"I dare say that the Mercedes-Benz brand will not be at the forefront of exporting cars from China. Maybe other brands will come first, and I am not only talking about my company, DaimlerChrysler," he said.
"Most of us will see cars being exported from China to other regions of the world, but I think the premium cars will be late followers, if ever."
Fellow DaimlerChrysler management board member Ruediger Grube told reporters in Shanghai last month that the carmaker was in talks with a Chinese partner about building Chryslers there and exporting them to North America.
But he stressed that a decision on whether to go ahead with the idea would be made only in the second half of the year.

Offline Shnak

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2005, 05:37:14 pm »
Instead of putting actual engineering efforts into achieving that goal, why don't they do like the domestics and just buy those results? It's much easier and works! The newly launched Ford Focus on the ten best for 5-6 years even though everyone will agree that it was absolutely terrible in the first 3-4 years? How else can you explain that then with a lot of $$$$$$$?!

Offline johngenx

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2005, 06:22:01 pm »
Focus has never been ranked highly on the basis of quality.  The C&D Top 10 has no provision for build quality whatsoever and goes simply on driving experience.

The one you can really simply buy is the MT "Car of the Year."  Jeez, some crap has taken that trophy.  It's a joke.

I look at several sources.  C&D and R&T give good reviews of handling, braking, and driving dynamics, but have little info on long term reliability.  Sure, they do "long term tests" but they span maybe 60K-km's.  So what?  And they don't really take a look at long term prospects.  If something was fixed under warranty, they seem pleased.  Only on rare occasions do they have a serious question if the car has a major mechanical fault.

For reliability, Consumer Reports does a better job.  It relys on surveys, which can be inaccurate and contain bias, but given the huge sample sizes (thanks to CR's giant subscriber base and excellent response rates) and their dilligence in maintaining a sample size large enough for a proper confidence test, their material is about the best published.

The JD Powers Initial Quality Survey means little to me.  Look at all the parameters, and it's way too biased towards how a customer "feels" about the car as opposed to real faults.  Quality to me means "works the way the engineer designed it to."  I want to know about electrical and mechancial faults, not steering wheel button clutter.  That I can see for myself.

One last thing that I do not like about ANY of the surveys is what is a "fault" in the long term.  As an example, if you have to replace the pads and/or discs on your car, CR rates that as a "brake fault" and counts it against the car.  I think it's normal.  Caliper/Master Cylinder/Line failure?  THAT is not normal and should count against the car.  We don't say the FI system failed if the engine air intake filter is replaced.  We don't say the engine failed 'cause it needed an oil change.  That's my CR gripe.
No place I'd rather be...

Offline Shnak

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2005, 06:26:54 pm »
Good post John, I agree for the most part.

There are some cars on which brakes wear out faster than others... that should be taken into account... and that is what CR does. If a particular car/brands needs you to replace the pads or discs earlier than other cars or brands, I want to know that!

Smainville

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2005, 06:48:33 pm »
When you pay $95000 for a car you are bound to be a lot more demanding.  What might be a fault from an owners POV for a certain MB model could be overlooked and not worth mentioning for another brand.

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2005, 07:49:26 pm »
I agree with John on the JD Powers rankings....of little interest. Not many people complain about their new cars during the honeymoon phase…..call me in four years when the warranty has run out. MB should concern itself with how they rank in the more objective CR ratings……not many red checkmarks there.

A4_tom

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2005, 11:07:56 pm »
I sometimes wonder whether Mercedes quality is really *THAT* bad. I have friends who happen to own W201 C280, W210 E240/320, W211 E320 and W208 CLK320. Except for the C280, all have some minor problems regarding electronics and rattles. But they don't seem as unreliable as the media wants you to think Mercedes-Benzes are.

I agree Mercedes's interior materials and door closing sound are not what it used to be. W210 feels more solidly built than W211 when closing the doors. But are they really THAT bad?

(Message edited by A4 Tom on May 10, 2005)

Offline tenpenny

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"To hell with JD Power" MB said
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2005, 09:18:02 pm »
Did I read that correctly, that if, for example, the car has "too many buttons on the steering wheel", it may lose points, in what is called an "initial quality survey"?????

If indeed that is the case, I guess JDPower has an interesting interpretation of initial quality.  I always thought it referred to the build quality of the car as received from the dealer.  

What that does is make the results even less meaningful than I thought they were.