Author Topic: "Previously Enjoyed" Volvo S60  (Read 8491 times)

Offline clee

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"Previously Enjoyed" Volvo S60
« on: April 29, 2005, 09:10:54 pm »
Hello:

It's been a long time since I've been part of a discussion at this forum, but I'm glad to be back.

I know there are some die-hard Volvo (S60) fans here so maybe you can help me.

I really like the S60.  My aunt and uncle have a base S60 that they bought last year.  The styling is really, really hot.  The performance is o.k.

I can't afford a new one and wouldn't want to buy a new one.  I'd like the car to be three years old at least to escape the depreciation.  Maybe a trade-in this time next year.

I'm not sure about buying pre-owned Volvos and was wondering what anyone has to say about pre-owned S60s.  I'm not too sure about Volvos' reliability, electronics etc...  I currently have a Honda Accord which runs silky smooth, that is the V6 and am a bit hesitant to trade it in for something that I'm not too sure of.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Offline clee

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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2005, 09:20:46 pm »
I'm also a bit hesitant to go from 240 horsepower to 168, or 208 horsepower.  Yikes!

And I'm very impressed as well with the seats in the 2003 Accord.  They are very, very comfortable.

My aunt and uncle bought their S60 at McMillan and Saunders in Mississauga.  They actually bought a demo with about 12, 000 km on it. Is this a good Volvo dealership?  Before I bought my car, I went to Roberts Motors Volvo in Toronto to check out the S40 (so happy I didn't buy this model, although the 05 model is really hot too)and I didn't find the car salesmen to be, how can I say, flexible on their pricing.  they were friendly though.

And I'm not sure if I should trade in an Accord for an S60 because the Accord is a well-built car, although the quality of a few things could be better.

Offline articsteve

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"Previously Enjoyed" Volvo S60
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2005, 10:42:25 pm »
An S60 will never be as reliable overall as a 2003 Accord.  But the car is 10 times safer and 100 times better looking.  Hope your uncle's car has leather and a sun roof and alloys.  That makes a difference.  Being a demo for 12,000 km is not great, but on the other hand you know exactly what your aunt and uncle have done to the S60.  

I have driven numerous Accords, but the Volvos have the Euro feel which is superior.
“Frankly, we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency,”     Billions for jets and pennies for vets; Harponi is MAGNIFICENT.

Offline skypoint

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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2005, 11:46:48 pm »
Hi Clee. In january, I bought a 2002 Volvo S60 from McMillan and Saunders. The car was a 2.4 turbo, black exterior with leather interior and 17 inch alloys, 73,000kms and the end price I paid was $28,500.

I've had the car for 3000kms, 3 months, and have had a great experience so far. The only downsides have been a dipstick that was rusted in place (cost me $17 to replace it, it isn't covered by the approved used warranty.) . Also, I have a power locking gremlin which means that sometimes a lock that is opened manually will not lock automatically, unless you power unlock all the locks first and then power lock the car once more.

As well as the 5 year / 120,000 kms warranty that you get from Volvo as part of their certified used programme, for around $2000 you can extend it by another 2 years / 40,000kms, with $50 deductible.

So I got my April 2002 , 73,000kms car in Janury this year with bumper to bumper warranty coverage until April 2009, 160,000 kms.

As for the dealership itself, I'm reasonably happy with it. One thing I appreciated is that from the moment I walked in the door they treated me as a serious buyer, never even questioning my ability to afford anything I looked at. (this being suprising to me because I was 23, and told them I'd just moved to Canada so it would be pretty clear I had no credit rating).

I felt treated with respect and had no pressure from the salesman beyond him saying "This is a really nice car, do you want to test drive it?"

When I went to pick up the car I had a boo-boo. I went in a blizzard, and when paying for the car 2 weeks earlier I had specified winter tires and indeed paid $1200 for them.  
When they broght the car out, it did not have those on. The service depertment was closed, and the storage area where the tires were was locked and the service deprtment manager unavailable to open it (him not being around because the department was closed)

They initially asked if I would drive home on the all-seasons (through the blizzard!!!) and come back later to have the winter tires put on. I was not impressed.

They then redeemed themselves to me. One of their mechanics dropped in for a social visit and they grabbed him, then a team of Volvo salesmen spent around 45 minutes picking the lock of the parts storage area!

FInally, I got my tires installed. Just as I was driving off the forecourt, I discovered that the widhsield washer fluid had frozen (they had put in -20 fluid and it was colder than that).

For no charge, they took the car back in, drained the fluid and replaced it with -40 fluid.

Finally, as I was about to drive off again, I managed to lose ALL but the spare keys to the car. The salesman I bought it from  (Raymond, the chinese salesman in there) then spent about 15 minutes out in the snow with me before he finally discovered the keys wedged down the side of the seat, where they had fallen out of my coat pocket.

Anyway, all things considered, I was happy with the dealership. When they screwed up, they were nothing but helpful in solving it.

I like them enought that I drove my car all the way fron North York to Mississauga just to get the oild changed and summer tires put on there - I've had a good experience there and I'll stay with them for the next 4 years.


One thing is don't take the 2.4 non-turbo. 168 bhp and not enough torque for the weight. The 2.4turbo is very nice. It outs out 197 bhp, but has a ton of torque. Try taking it for a test drive and see! Of course, being a turbo you have to be more careful with the oil you use (synthetic!!!! ) and you need to wait a minute when starting and shuttting down the car for the turbo to spin up and down.

But I have no regrets with either the car or the dealership!!!

Plus, the 2.4 turbo comes with 8 speakers that put out very nice sound. If you can one with the top of the range 13-speaker system, all the better for you!!!!

(Message edited by skypoint on April 29, 2005)
Black 2002 Volvo S60 2.4T

Offline articsteve

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"Previously Enjoyed" Volvo S60
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2005, 12:21:02 am »
It's actually a 2.5 low pressure turbo @ 208 HP presently.  Before, the NA motor was a 2.5 litre 168 HP 5 banger.  I'm a bit confused as to where the 2.4 came from.  I had a 98 S70 168 hp 2.5 in auto loaded and it was a very nice car until the tranny started acting up so I got rid of it.  The trannys today are different.

If you get a S60 you need it well equipped with leather, sun roof and wheels.

Offline skypoint

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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2005, 01:10:16 am »
Arcticsteve, until the 2003 or 2004 model year, Volvo's smallest NA engine turbo was a 2.4 light-pressure turbo. It put out 197 bhp and is under the bonnet of my car.

More recent models have a slightly more powerful 2.5 light pressure turbo putting out 208 bhp.

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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2005, 08:30:04 am »
2.4 Litre DOHC I-5, 4 Valves Per Cylinder STD-168 hp
 
2.4 Litre DOHC I-5, 4 Valves Per Cylinder, Light Pressure Turbo with Intercooler -197 hp (last year for LPT MY2003)
 
2.5 Litre DOHC I-5, 4 Valves Per Cylinder, Light Pressure Turbo with Intercooler -208 hp (first year used in the AWD models only MY2003, replaced the 2.4LPT MY2004)  

2.3 Litre DOHC I-5, 4 Valves Per Cylinder, High Pressure Turbo with Intercooler-247 hp (last year used MY2004)

ULEV Engine: Transversely Mounted, 2.4L, 5 Cylinder High Pressure Turbocharged, All Aluminium, DOHC 20 Valve with CVVT -257 hp (MY2005)

Test drive the different engine types and see which one you favour. If buying from dealership, Volvo has the 5 year/160,000km warranty as Skypoint mentioned. I noticed that McMillan and Saunders has a nice MY2002 S60 T5 listed, which has the VIP warranty.

Good luck shopping.

Offline Bullet Blue

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"Previously Enjoyed" Volvo S60
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2005, 10:08:00 am »
If you are worried about the S60 being sluggish compared the the V6 accord then you can still find some T5's around and a decent price which push out 247 horses.

With that being said, I have driven the 2.4 and if mated to a 5 speed manual it is deceptively fast and agile. It actually feels like more than 168 HP. They are exceptionally hard to find used though with the MT.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out. The S60 is one of my favourites

Offline clee

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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2005, 10:50:02 am »
Hello:

So, you (Skypoint) would recommend dealing with McMillan and Saunders?  23 and you have a S60?  I thought I read somehwere were Volvos tend to attract an "older" crowd.  That's o.k, though, as I'm in my twenties and like the S60 too. The deal that you got sounds great, though.  I think I want to wait for a 2003 model and probably need to wait for some more time to elapse before I find a good deal.  Maybe next year?  

I also find that a lot of the used S60s are either in black or silver.  I like the ruby red.

My aunt and uncle have a silver S60 and it does have leather and a sunroof.  With 12, 000km on it, as a demo, they payed $42,000 - taxes included and stated they would have had to pay $48, 000 brand new, so they think they got a good deal.

I was wondering if Volvo dealerships let you take a pre-owned car to a mechanic for inspection, as some dealers like Acura Woodbine are public about taking one of their used cars to one's own mecahnic for inspection.  I recall once when I test-drove the s40 a few years ago, the sales guy told me I could take it for 10 minutes only.  This certainly would not be enough time to take it clandestinely to a mechanic for inspection.  I would want to test-drive a used car for a long period of time.  I took my Accord out for an hour - the salesman was really great and accomodating.  So Volvos aren't reliable as Accords?  What's the lfespan of a S60 then?

Offline clee

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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2005, 10:55:19 am »
Was the car, Skypoint, in very good condition when you bought it?  I mean, $70,000kms is a lot for a used car.  Was the interior still in tip-top shape?  Did you have access to all the service records?  Were you able to talk to the previous owners?  How do you know the odometer wasn't rolled back?  These are things that concern me about buying a used car, especailly if I can't take it out to an independent mechanic.

Offline clee

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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2005, 10:59:04 am »
Does the used car salesman have to be in the car on the test-drive because I test-drove a used S40 without a salesman in the car and I test-drove my Accord with no salesman in the car too.  I would actually not buy a car if the salesman didn't trust me enough to take the car out on my own.

Also, what about instilling Mohamed Buchama and Car Help (he's on City TV sometimes) to help in getting a used car?  Does anyone have any comments about Car Help?

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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2005, 12:41:35 pm »
70,000km on a used Volvo is low mileage,as Volvo's are built to last an average of 18 years (with proper care and maintenance).
Just look how many old Volvos are on the road, and what kind of condition inside and out they are in. That should give an idea how durable they are.
I have not dealt with McMillan & Saunders, but the person that bought my S70, has been using them for many years and highly recommends them.

As far as test drives and salesperson riding along/length of time, I have never had a salesperson accompany me on a test drive or been told how many minutes I have, this issue is between you and the salespersons/dealerships attitude/policies.

Seeing that you are looking at relatively new used cars, the service history will be in Volvo's data base and easily obtained from your salesperson(I don't see the need to have an outside mechanic look at it IMO).
 Volvo orginal warranty will still be in effect if not over the 80,000km limit/4 years.
And all Volvo used cars sold by Volvo dealerships will have the 5 year/160,000 warranty included, and as I mentioned above the VIP coverage is a bonus.

Colour choices, yours being the Ruby Red will be a hard find, as you have noticed, most are silver or black. Also 3 year old S60's will not be plentiful, maybe 15-20 to choose from in Ontario market.

Offline Bullet Blue

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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2005, 01:24:20 pm »
"Just look how many old Volvos are on the road, and what kind of condition inside and out they are in. That should give an idea how durable they are."

Very true S60. My 240 is pushing 15 years with 270 thousand kms on her and she still works and looks great. I expect this car to last well over 18 years.

Offline clee

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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2005, 01:36:10 pm »
Thanks.  This is all great information.

Offline clee

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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2005, 01:39:11 pm »
S60:

Which dealership did you deal with?

Offline hondasalesguy

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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2005, 02:07:51 pm »
Arcticsteve I have to take exception to you mentioning that the Volvo S60 would be 10 times safer than an Accord. Let's see, a new Accord V6 has front, side, and curtain airbags, seatbelt pretensioners, ABS, 4 wheel discs, Traction Control, and a 5 Star Crash Test rating from the NHTSA. It is recomended by Intellichoice, pretty much all consumer guide, consumer report type of publications, and also has the top rating from the IIHS.  

Exactly how much safer can you get?

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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2005, 02:11:36 pm »
I've used Volvo Villa (Steeles Ave) sales and service, the service department  was the reason I switched to Volvo Newmarket to lease my most recent S60, and have been very pleased with both sales and service.

You mention you will wait 1 year, so use this time to research the many dealerships in the Toronto area(11 of them), find someone you find trust worthy and you can work with. Developing a relationship with a salesperson is just as important to the customer as it is for the salesperson. Makes for a positive/fun buying experience, which getting new wheels should be all about.

HSG, if you have had any seat time in a Volvo, you will know what Steve is referring to.
Not to doubt the safety features of a Honda, but you have to admit Volvo does go that extra mile,
not just in the safety features in the cars, but the research and lengths the company goes to, in developing and understanding how Volvo cars fare in real life accident situations. I am sure you have read past articles relating to what I am posting, (Volvo Accident Research Team)etc.

(Message edited by S60 on April 30, 2005)

Offline skypoint

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« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2005, 04:08:47 pm »
Clee, the Volvo was my first used car purchase. So I probably did make a few screw ups.

Part of the reason why I decided to buy from a Volvo franchised dealer was because I was a virgin at buying used cars and didn't know what to look for. So the 5 year , 120000km full warranty that comes with every approved car was very important to me. It covers everything from mechanicals to electricals.

The interior of the car was in generally good condition. The leather around the hand brake was worn and slightly stained, but I felt that was reasonable for a car 3 years old. What was not acceptable to me was a hole which something had pierced in the left rear passenger door interior panel, and a little bit of damage to one of the speakers.

I pointed this out to the salesman and he said that they would have that fixed for free before I picked up the car (and indeed they did).

So by the time I picked up the car the interior was in practically mint condition other than the worn, soft leather around the handbrake.

The onyl service records that I had access to was the car's service book, which was complete (all from McMillan & Saunders) minus a few stamps. The salesman checked with the service department and claimed that all of the scheduled servicing had been done on the car, and it was present in the service department's computer. They said that the previous owner had simply not brought his service book every time to be stamped. They filled the missing stamps in.

I didn't talk to the previous owner, thought his name, address and phone number are still printed in the car's manual.

As for whether the car had the odometer rolled back, that was one of the reasons I bought from a franchised dealer with a warranty. My understanding has always been that franchised dealers are much less likely to roll back the mileage - and because of the warranty, Volvo will pick up the cost of any problems arising should this happen.

(Message edited by skypoint on April 30, 2005)

Offline articsteve

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« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2005, 04:22:12 pm »
OK, the main block is still the 90's 2.5 is it not?  The only difference in displacement is because of the various pistons choices? I gave up trying to find a clear explanation on the net.

Exactly how much safer can you get?


Lets not dwell with the tests done in the US regarding 35 mph off set and side crashes.

Lets deal with the real world and primarily with  rear enders or perhaps going off the road and rolling down a ravine or just a good 403/407 roll over.  Accord, Camry, Mazada 6 not going to do you a lot of good there.  Not like an S60 or a Saab.  To pretend otherwise is pie in the sky optimism.

Look at the seats in Swedish cars and then look at the seats in Japanese cars and not from the top.  Get your head down on the floor and examine the seat rails.  Note the astounding differences.  Too much to go into other than to say the swedish seats are engineered pursuant to legislation and the Japanese seats are not.

Seat construction is everything.  My moment of zen is walking throughout the massive Domms Auto wrecker near Oshawa. If you want a lesson in the real world about vehicle impacts and how seats perform then I would recommend a walk thru on a nice day.  I would say Jeeps of all makes have the worst seats and seat rails of most vehicles.  Pretty much all the domestics and Japanese cars fair much worse than the Swedish and German cars.

Sorry, but chances are that if the country of origin has a legislated "seat law" then it cars will have safer seats in which people are supposedly strapped into.  The safety "thing" becomes much more relevant to a person when the seat decides to relocate itself while the occupant is still attached to it before the vehicle comes to a complete stop.  You get my drift.

Offline articsteve

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« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2005, 04:35:10 pm »
They said that the previous owner had simply not brought his service book every time to be stamped. They filled the missing stamps in.

Which is complete BS of course because in my experience with higher end vehicles those service books never leave the car.

The only questionable used Volvo or any car for that matter is if the leasee or previous owner had teenage kids that drove the car. That is something to avoid.

Rarely you are going to find any of these cars with outstanding oil change intervals.  Mostly 8,000 km is the best you can get so look for intervals of time more than intervals of mileage.  Some owners only do 8K in 9 months so that isn't ideal.