Author Topic: Mercedes 190E  (Read 1989 times)

Offline chester

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Mercedes 190E
« on: April 13, 2005, 10:46:07 am »
Hi folks;looking for any info on the 190E 4 cyl.
  positive or negative,considering buying a 1991 4 cyl. auto 180k. Thanks

Offline Scaerio

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2005, 11:55:57 am »
Stay away - the 4 cyl. 190 was a disaster.  If you can, get a C-class (a much better car).  If you really want a 190, go with the 2.3L V6 models.  Much better engine.

Parts and service are generally very high for Mercedes.
-Ken

SAAB: automobile design inspired by Salvador Dali on an absinthe bender.

Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2005, 01:31:59 pm »
I don't have much time right now, but I'l respond later.  I owned four 190E's, two 2.3's, a 2.6 and a 2.3-16V.  None were sold prior to 400K, so I have some seat time in the W201's...
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Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2005, 03:41:52 pm »

Parts and service are generally very high for Mercedes.


This is a myth.  We've owned seven Mercedes models over the years, and also several Honda's, an Acura, several Mazda's and two Subarus.  The Japanese brands have just as high parts prices, if not higher, and service costs were every bit as high as for the Mercedes'.  Our Acura Integra was staggering in it's service/parts costs.  Only our C36AMG had more expensive parts, and only the AMG specific parts beat the Acura bits.

The M102 SOHC 2.3L engine is no powerhouse at 130hp, and the gearing of the four speed auto is a little off for us North Americans, meaning the car feels a little sluggish in town.  But, the four is durable if cared for, and can easily go 350,000km's or more with regular oil changes.  The automatic is also well made, and should last at least 300K if maintained.  Rebuilding them is easy by any MB specialist and is not that expensive.

The AC/ACC system is a bit of a weak point and the control unit on the dash can go bad.  Rebuilt units are not too expensive, so stay away from the dealer for that part if needed.  Same for cruise control amplifiers.  That said, we recently sold our 1990 190E 2.6 and the AC blew ice cold and the ACC worked perfectly despite 400,000kms.  The engine and tranny were original, as were the suspension parts and most everything on the car.  It needed new shocks and some bushings, but after 16 years and 400K, that's to be expected.

Both our 190E 2.3's were super reliable cars and served us very well.  We had an 87 and an 88.  The 90+ cars got some improvements, including some minor driveline changes.  The 91-93 models are the best.

Now, the problem is PRICE.  People are on CRACK when pricing their 15 year old 190E.  Seriously, a 91 190E 2.3 is a $2500 car.  Some morons ask $10K!    I would not pay a dime over $4K for a pristine well cared for 93 190E 2.6.  And that would be reaching.  Don't overpay for one of these cars.  The W201 line are all old now and with two generations of "Baby Benzes" past it, they're just old.  Mileage means NOTHING.  Low miles means the car has sat or only done short trips.  Bad news.  If you really want one, look for service records.  Frequent oil/filter changes and tranny services every 45-50K are very, very important.  Those two things greatly extend the life of the driveline.

The 1994- C-Class cars are a major improvement.  Better engines, greatly improved suspension (double a-arms instead of struts) and much larger trunks and rear seat areas are just the start.  The prices are higher, but generally worth it.  The W202 is a huge leap forward from the W201.  Remember that the W201 was designed in 1978/1979 and that was a very different time from 1990/1991 when the W202 was put to paper.  This is why you should pay a fraction of the price of a W202 C-Class for a W201 190E car.

If you want the best buy in a Mercedes, look for a 1996 C220.  The 96 models have a few changes that make a real difference (the AC/ACC system is the variable pressure system, as on the latest cars, and is superb).  96's generally are priced about the same as 94-95's, but are better enough to look for.

Offline Scaerio

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2005, 04:25:09 pm »
I had a '78 230 (W-123) and found parts to be way more expensive than for my Volvo - but I had no engine trouble...  I found brakes, and exhaust repairs to be pricey...  
 
And I just realised my earlier mistake - the 2.3L is a 4, and not a V6.  The 2.3L four is a great engine.  The smaller four offered on these cars (1.9 or 2.0L wasn't it Johngenx?) was a problem.

Sorry.

Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2005, 05:10:12 pm »
The smaller four offered on these cars (1.9 or 2.0L wasn't it Johngenx?) was a problem.

In North America, only the 2.3L SOHC M102 four was offered.  The 1984 model engines are different, and not very good.  Any 190E from 84 is to be avoided for many reasons, but as they're now 21 years old, that is enough of a reason.  In 87, the 2.3L was uprated from 113 to 130hp, making the 87's the earliest models to be considered.  But, with the age of all 190E's now, I really would only consider a 91 or later, and reluctlantly unless the price was very low.

The only truly desirable 190E is the 87 190E 2.5 turbodiesel.  The 2.5L diesel is an incredible engine and in the 190E body, offers great performance and unreal economy.  They also just never break.  Most of the gas engines (2.3, 2.6 and 2.3-16V) easily go 500K without work, but the little diesel can outreach that by a large margin.  There are several in Alberta with over 800K.

Personally, I have found brake parts very reasonable.  I do buy OE from the dealer since I had such bad luck with jobber parts.  Some people don't like the fact that MB brake discs are not be turned on a lathe, instead replaced.  But, they're cheap, so that's fine.  Just after I sold the 190E, I helped the new owner with a brake job.  Front brake parts were $70 for the pad set including the caliper bolts and sensors and $90 for the discs.  I don't think $160 is expensive at all!  Ironically, parts for the C230 are actually LESS.  I bought front discs for $65 for the pair.

Some parts are really, really, really expensive.  Like engines.  If you need a new/rebuilt engine, it will generally cost way more than the car is worth.  But, their engines are usually the last thing to ever fail on the car, so no worries.  In fact, I have yet to find an owner that has changed the oil that has had a bottom end actually wear out.  Regardless of mileage.

One nice thing I've found is that many parts are repairable or rebuildable at a fraction of the cost of new.  In fact, MB offers their own rebuilding service and it's awesome.  My Dad has a 1973 300SEL 4.5 and parts can still be ordered right up from MB, and some stuff that was really pricey, we had rebuilt at about 25% of the cost.  This is a boon to owners of older cars.

Overall, on a cost per mile basis, no car we've owned has been more frugal than the C230.  It's very DIY friendly, has had few repairs, and is good on gas.  I've recently switched back to the OE 15" wheels from 17's and that should save some real bucks on tire costs.

Offline chester

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2005, 05:25:49 pm »
Thanks guys;this car is a 1991 190E 2.3 180k.I've talked to the previous owner,he bought it 3yrs ago,paid $8500 had 156k.On paper he got $5600 for trade in,dealer is asking $4995. Johngenx;you think this is to far out of line?

Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2005, 05:53:44 pm »
On paper he got $5600.  Probably had to overpay on his new car by $2K or more for that.  The dealer really gave him $2500-3000.  Not much gap in wholesale/retail on these cars anymore.

Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $3K for any 190E 2.3.  At that price, they're not a bad car.

My indie mechanic bought a 93 190E 2.3 SE recently for $2700 to use as a beater.  I sold my 90 190E 2.6 for $1500, needing about $1K in suspension work.  They might punt you if you offer $2500, or they might not.

Offline chester

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2005, 06:26:42 pm »
Thanks man.think I'll pass on this one.

Offline sittinaround

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 05:14:40 am »
Thanks to JohnGenX for your comments.  Especially about the 190E TurboDiesel.  I saw a near perfect car at a junkyard awhile back & wished I could save it...

I bought a '91 2.3/5 speed from a friend a little over a year ago.  He purchased it new and he gave me a good deal on it.  It's a nice little car but there is a problem that I haven't been able to solve.

The car tends to run hot.  The thermostat is alright.  It was replaced awhile ago when the housing broke.  The car was garaged in Tel Aviv by the previous owner and he had the same overheating problem about 4 years ago.  He blamed Mercedes in TLV for the problem due to their poor service.  It was fixed when I purchased the car but last summer started to act up again.  In heavy traffic and warm weather it needs to run both fans almost continually.  My Alfa Milano runs significantly cooler.  I am really perplexed by this - and worried too, that I risk blowing the head gasket (again).

The other question I have about the car is about aftermarket shocks: bilstein or koni?  Any preference?  I've been very happy with koni red's.  Bilsteins I've only used once and they seemed to be fine.  Both are expensive & I only want to improve the car's handling.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2005, 09:41:38 am »
Sounds like the rad is blocked.

If you're keeping the car, use Bilsteins.  They are the OE shock and match the car very well.  Lifetime warranty that is easy to use if needed, but seldom is.

Offline barrie1

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2005, 02:56:03 pm »
If you suspect your rad is blocked I would put a small box of baking soda in the rad and drive it for a week. Then have it flushed as the baking soda will clean out all of the rust and gunge in it. Make sure you run it thru the heater as well as sometimes thats where the blockage will gather. Replace with fresh anti-freeze thats mixed with Distilled water around 50/50. This will clean it out.

Offline johngenx

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2005, 05:43:56 pm »
Actually, on those cars, the rad might not be blocked internally, but externally.  It's not uncommon for the fins to become filled with years of road grime.  On the 2.3 models, hauling out the rad and cleaning it is a simple task.  It's much more difficult on the 2.6 as the engine bay is crowded, really crowded.

You should check to make sure that there is not coolant in the oil, or vice versa.  Also, those cars often never seen a rad cap replaced, so do that, whether it fixes it or not.

Don't be too sure about the thermostat.  It might have gone bad again, or might have been istalled incorrectly.  It's really easy to put it in upside down and that will cause the engine to run hot.

Also, can you tell me how hot?  Those cars have accurate coolant gauges (unlike Japanese cars) and they reflect changes while driving.  It's normal for the temp to get to 100C-105C while the AC is on and you're in traffic.  110-120C is not normal.

The fans are operated by a set of triggers that are not only coolant temp dependant.  When activating the AC, one fan will come on regardless of coolant temp to ensure air flows through the condensor.  The other fan is activated by AC pressure and/or coolant temp, and it's not unusual for them to run while the AC is on in traffic.

You might have the belt driven fan clutch checked to make sure it has it's high speed ability.

The cooling systems on these cars are a little more complicated than others, but with a little diagnosis time, are easy to fix.

Offline sittinaround

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2005, 03:11:32 am »
Thanks for the replies.

I drove the car for about 3 weeks without any overheating problem.  In heavy traffic it runs at 100 or so and if it gets hotter the other fan kicks in.  I guess I was just worried that it would blow up.

And I seem to be sinking tons of money into my other cars - so it's nice to have the reliable 190 around when I need it.  Plus it has AC.

As far as shocks go, I'll get some Bilsteins one day.  I think my car has OE Boge right now.

Offline Scaerio

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2005, 11:06:12 am »
Hey Sittin', just checked your profile to see what your other cars are.  You have a Milano?  As in Alfa 75?  COOL!!  I know it's probabaly not the most dependable thing ever, but it's such a beautiful little car.  I love Alfas!  BTW, love your choice of the Citroën C6 as a dream car.

Welcome to the Forums!

Offline sittinaround

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Mercedes 190E
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2005, 02:45:40 am »
Thanks for the comment on the Milano/75, Ken.

I've had 6 Alfas and this one is probably the best I've owned.  The performance is good, especially at high revs, and it sounds great when you push it.  But the car's chassis is brilliant.  Mine is stock and the way it corners is simply amazing.  I just keep accelerating through corners and it keeps hanging on.  When it starts to go it gives plenty of warning.  Everyone: buy transaxle cars!!!

A month ago someone in a new 530i cut in front of me and promptly stomped on their brakes.  Grrr...  Of course the Bimmer has brilliant brakes and my car couldn't stop in time.  So my car is drivable, but I'm trying to justify spending at least $1500.00 to fix a 15 year old car.  

The difference between the two marques is like night and day.  The 190E has a nice style to it.   Whereas I look at the Milano, like the styling, but wonder - why?  The Mercedes is spot on reliable but you're driven in the car.  Whereas the AR you drive it.  And with this Milano, it's not quite as reliable as the Mercedes but compared to some of my other Alfas it's very close to German standards.

Thx for the comment on the Cit - they're so cool.  It's a pity they don't sell them here - or Alfas.  Mexico City has an Alfa dealer tho!  I want a Coupe!!

Gary