Topic: Oil Change - Service Book Reco vs Reality

[skypoint]

My car's service book says I have to change the oil every 12000km or 12 months, depending which comes first.

The dealer I bought it from stated this too.

Online, conventional wisdom seems to suggest doing it either every 8000kms or 5000kms, at intervals as frequently as 3 months.

What's the deal? Why the discrepency?

[exserviceguy]

Hi Sky, Your answer depends on whether or not you plan on keeping the car for a long while.  There is only one reason to change oil, because it gets contaminated with the byproducts of burning fuel and with water from condensation on the engine block.  Even the cheapest $0.99 per litre oil on Floormarts shelf doesn't 'break down' and the most expensive synthetic isn't immune to contaminants.  The only thing synthetics do is lessen engine start up wear and they have better performance capabilities as well.  But they do not extend the oil change intervals.  Almost every car maker is in the 'our models are cheaper to maintain' contest these days knowing that most owners will never keep their vehicle long enough to learn the folly of 12 month interval oil changes in a climate as friendly as Canada has.  You want to keep a turbo engine past warranty?  Change the oil and filter 5000-8000 kms or every 3 to 4 months whichever occurs first and use a good quality synthetic.  If not I'll start looking for a good used engine for you.

[weebl]

Skypoint, sounds like you have a turbo engine.  You definitely don't want to go with an extended oil change interval on a forced induction engine.  Oil tends to become contaminated on these engines much more quickly than naturally aspirated engines.

I'm also of the school of thought that dino oil is just fine for most applications - turbos and diesels however, I would stick with synthetics on these engines.

[skypoint]

I was thinking of not using synthetic even though I have a Turbo engine, because I store my car in a heated underground lot. It hardly ever needs to start at anything less than +5 degrees C so I thought dino oil should be fine under those conditions, especially with spring coming.

[articsteve]

You have paid some pretty good coin for this used Volvo.  Pay Volvo to change the crankcase with 100% syn oil every 10K or 6 months and keep your car attractive to the next buyer.  It's a fraction of the money you have paid to date.

What was in the motor when you got it?  What do the records say?

I don't subscribe to the theory that syn oil needs to be changed as often as dino oil.

Don't take your car to a quick lube to save a few bucks.  They will screw it up and Volvo will blow you off.

[skypoint]

Arcticsteve, I was planning on having no-one but Volvo touch the car until April 2009 since I paid $2000 to have it fully warranteed until then and don't want to risk that investment

When I got the car, Volvo had just drained it and filled it with conventional oil. The service records don't say what oil had been in it previously, they just show that all oil changes had been done according to the manufacturer schedule. It had done 7 oil changes in about 3 years, meaning one every just over every 10kms around every 6 months.

Alright, it seems that I'm getting STRONGLY advised to use synthetic so I'll take along a a bottle of the stuff for them next time I get the oil done.

[articsteve]

The Volvo dealer put dino oil in it because they are trying to save a buck.  If you change it every 6 months or 10K rather than 4 times with dino then the savings in Volvo service charges will mitigate the cost of the syn oil.

I highly recommend the canadian Tire brand of syn oil.  It is from Shell.  Personally, if Volvo has no problem, I would put the 5W50 100% syn oil in it because it is a worn motor.  I use this in a 2.5 litre 6 cylinder BMW, a Turbo Mitsubishi 2.0 litre.  For the new Honda SIR I use the 5W30 grade.  The prices are best you can get in synthetics.  I use a 15W50 Mobil 1 for my 4 cylinder Porsche, but I should switch it because Mobil 1 is getting ridiculous.

[skypoint]

Thanks for the advice, Arcticsteve.  
My situation is complicated a bit by the fact that my 84 month service is due in Jan 2006. If I change to synth oil next month, then 6 months later will be October 2006, but then I'll have to get an oil change as part of the service just 3 months after that.

I'm thinking of going to Volvo in mid-April to get my winter tires on 16 inch rims replaced with my stored set of all-seasons on 17 inch rims. While I'm there, I'll get my oil changed to synth oil. I understand synth oil is better in summer anyway during high temperatures

That should last me 6 months until October this year. If I switch to dino oil once more at that point, the oil will be due for a scheduled change in January anyway when its 3 months old, and I can switch back to synthetic for the rest of my life with the car at that point.

Does switching from dino to synthetic to dino and back to synthetic have any negative effect on the engine?

Otherwise, I can stop being a scrooge and splash out a few extra bank notes to run my car on synthetic from next month onwards come what may.

[barrie1]

It shouldn't have any negative effect except the lessor amount of protection while its in there.

[maritime_storm]

2 reasons for this, oil change intervals were set at the 5000km/3000mi back in the 60's, since then engine technology and oil technology has come a long way. The second reason is environmental, used oil is a pollutant, the longer the interval the less pollution created. That having being said, I still prefer to stick with 5000km oil change interval, even though my ION can go as long as 15,000kms between oil change according to the computer. As the others have said, oil is cheap, engines aren't.

[articsteve]

Sky; I would try and schedule the syn oil changes with the tire switching.  It needs to go up in the air anyways.  It is not that costly for them to do it then.

Note that the first syn change will not drain all of the dino oil out of the turbo.  I would bet that 1/3 of a litre of dino oil is left in the motor. I will take a few changes to convert back to 100% syn oil. For that reason you will need to check the level yourself after it sits overnight.  Advise them to underfill it rather than overfill it.  Better to top it up yourself in your condo garage than have it overfilled by the dealer guy.  They will run fine with a litre down so no problem for a day.

You will find that buying the Canadian Tire Brand 100% Shell syn oil and handing that to the dealer will be just as cost effective as the dealer's bulk dino oil.  Again 5W50 will give great summer protection, but you will need to check with Volvo.

[skypoint]

Let me check if I understand this correctly. When they do the oil change, oil is left inside the turbo. After sitting overnight, that oil will flow back out of the turbo. Therefore, if they fill the car up fully at the dealer, then when the oil flows back out of the turbo I'd have too much oil in total. Is that right?

[articsteve]

Yes, and even if it was not a turbo there would be excess oil in the valve train that never has enough time during a routine oil change to drain out.  More complicated the valve train the more oil it retains.

Most mechanics know this and purposely add less oil than the specs require.  Dealers sometimes screw this up depending on who actually changes the oil.  When I change oil, I usually drain the oil out and let it drip. I then go work on some other part of the car for a few hours.  The trick to this is that you need to place the oil fill cap on the dash in front of the steering wheel because it is easy to forget that you have previously drained the oil because you forget about it.

(Message edited by Articsteve on March 29, 2005)

[barrie1]

Personally I leave the oil containers under the hood with the cap off and go work on something else as well. I do agree with leting it drain for as long as possible as if there is any sludge in there then it gives it time to drain out as well. The longer the drain the more dirt you get out.

[skypoint]

Well I'll be damned.

I tried to check my oil level today. Popped the hood, pulled the dipstick.

Nothing budged at all.

Pulled harder, it wouldn't move. Pulled even harder, and nothing happened.

Give it a twist and pulled and the top part of the dipstick broke off clean in my hand!!!!

The bottom part is wedged down into there nice and good. Took a closer look and it seems as though there is rust at the end of the tube the dipstick goes in - must have been jamming the dipstick in.  

At any rate, I'm left with a car that I cannot check the oil level on. I am not amused at all. Am phoning the dealer tomorrow and demanding they take a look at it under warranty.

When I pull the dipstick on a Volvo warranteed car it should not break off in my hand!!!

[fkrueger]

My 2cents worth.  Been using synthetics since 1990 in my Turbo Dodge 600 for a start. Turbo Magazine ran a test of Mobile 1 against a "high grade mineral oil".  25kmiles were run a a Buick GN turbo engine, no filters, no changes, just add as needed. The turbo bearing in the mineral grade engine was toasted, the Mobile bearing had minimal wear.  The oil I used was Supertech Synthetic(Pennzoil I'm told) from Walmart, ran it for 8k miles to sometimes 11kmiles between changes with filters at 4 or 5k. Did that for about 70kmiles.  Went in to have an intercooler added and they wanted to pull the head and turbo for inspection, they said they were both in excellent shape at 114k.  Original engine, and turbo. Still use synthetics, 8kmile oil changes, filters at 4k. I will only use mineral grade in leaky engines which I don't have at this point. I will also point out GM uses synthetics in their supercharger with I think it was 30k changes reccommmended, which I do at 20Kmiles.  The Honda dealer here is Renton Wa does support synthetics as well as use them. I am sure a few have seen this
http://www.syntheticoildealer.com/hall/amsoil_10w30_api_motor_oil_test_compariso n.htm  

I am not pushing Amsoil, but I do believe most synthetics are better than mineral grades.  Amsoil, Redline, Mobile1, and Royal Purple have been said by others to be the best due to being POA based. And I have gone to synthetic brake, powersteering and trans fluid in my GTP.

Guess that's more than 2cents worth, huh?

[safristi]

2.364 Canuck cents to be precise.!!..the Old Dinosaurs here are still using their ancestors remains until they too contribute to the cycle of ignorance..(that's a bit harsh ..but humerous..NO!!!) Amsoil user at 12,000K my oil is still clear and clean since last change...NUFF SAID...started like a dream  all winter and runs like a steam- engine.....I's RATHER SWITCH THAN FIGHT...... LORD SAFFY D'AMSOIL....!!!

[duck]

Fkrueger  

Come to Alberta in the winter. Both you and yer car will need synthetics.

[duck]

Safi

12,000 km since yer last oil change?  WoW  How old is yer beast?  What year milleage etc?  

[safristi]

2000 Mazda Millenia Supercharged version...72,000Kms.Sad thing is she will have to be a keeper as their prices are plummeting and soon it will be worth less than a case of Amsoil.Other than that no complaints still admire its looks and enjoy the Zoom Zoom.Great deal in a near luxury fer $10,000 to $13,000..hard to beat that.