Topic: 10 rules for dealing with a car dealer

[eax]

Margin's today are more like 6%-10%.  General Motors and Ford have slightly higher margins to appease their dealer body.  When you start talking trucks, GM and Ford specifically, that's were the margin's get big.  Hummer's and Corvette's have HUGE margin's.  The H2 starts at a 13.81% margin and  can rise to close to 20%.  The Corvette starts at 18.5%!  I bet most would be surprised that a BMW 745Li LWB, with an MSRP of $100,000+ has 9.86% markup from invoice.  Lexus LX470?  9.93%...LS430?  11.71%...the margin's are actually much smaller than many believe.  Cookie cutter Corolla's 6.54%...Civic's 7.17%..there is not a lot of room for negotiation.

[eax]

what I meant by my post, is that you should take your time and be informed.  Going into a dealer and asking for $3000 off a car with a $1000 margin isn't going to get you anywhere.  Get the invoice, go in, be fair (dealer's need to make money to serve you properly) and I'm sure you will have a very positive experience.

[JSCC]

"If life where like that, we wouldn't ask/beg/rob for your VISA!"

[safristi]

TooLate.."First time I've enjoyed being a car!!!???"...do they do the TRANNY thing first..

[toolatecrew]

DOOHHHHH

I meant being a car BUYER.

You got me.

[55inthe54]

I'll see you back at the base, Optimus Prime.

[mrthompson]

[sharky]

Hey all --- long time reader, first time poster.  Just out of curiosity, what would it take for people to actually trust the person that they are buying from?  Or ist that totally out of the question?

[toolatecrew]

Its almost totally out of the question IMO.  

Only possible scenario would maybe a Staurn (no haggle price), cash sale with NO trade in. At least you might trust the SALES person. As soon as you get in with the business manager forget it. Here comes ther document fees or seat protection (at least no Rust check cause its plastic )

Dealers are they to make money. They make it but selling cars for as much over their cost as they possibly can. You want to but it for as little as you can. I'd never trust somone to do what's in my best interest when its in direct opositon to what's in my best interest.

I don't think all auto people are dishonest people (I was one at one time) but people do what you motivate them to do. Comission sales doesn't motivate honesty. People aren't rewarded based on honesty they are rewarded on $s.

If ALL dealers of a brand had iron clad non negotiable prices no extra's thrown in etc. It would go along way towards turting them. If they were required to take certification tests by the manufacture to have a certain level of vehicle knowledge that would help too.

[sharky]

Well, the industry certainly doesn't have a good track record.  Every time I start to think that it's "not so bad", I'm painfully reminded of how naive I can be.  
I've gotta say, I love the idea of fixed prices though.  The used market is getting destroyed not just by incentives on new cars, but because dealerships just whore their product out for $5 less/month than the guys across town.
And while I've seen some bad ones (certainly not the worst, from the horror stories I've heard), I've also seen some very good "business offices", where the products are at least presented to you, and not rammed down your throat.
As far as salespeople and product knowledge, some brands do have requirements, but it's just wayyyyyy too easy to fake.  Get it wrong as many times as you like until you memorize the right answers.  The only good thing about the industry is that consumers' expectations are so low, it's not hard to stand out from the pack.
I think that if salespeople AND customers would just slow down and listen to each other, buying cars would be a lot less stressful.  And while I'm at it, let's abolish income tax and mortgage payments too...

[Accordingly]

"...what would it take for people to actually trust the person that they are buying from?"  

Maybe if you're married to him/her...but even then, watch your back!

[toolatecrew]

Any type of sales that has a more than minimal commission component encourages dishonest behavior.

The fact is it doesn't matter if its cars or toasters. You only get paid if you sell YOUR product.  

Someone says " I want a 4 door wagon with  diesle engine what vehicle would suit me best? " to a Hyundai salaesman on commision being honest and saying "we don't sell deisle a Jetta would fill your need" puts not ONE penny in his pocket, it puts no food on his table it puts no roof over his head.  

His job and the way he pays his bills is to convince you that VW's have falws that make HIS product more suitable. The TRUTH is that his product doesn't suit you better but to get money and pay his bills he has to convince you otherwise.  

People in survival mode do just that whatever is need to survive.

[kayeyeemm]

Do car salespeople treat you better if you appear to be well informed? Or is it better to appear to be naive and then call them on it when they try to pull the wool over your eyes?

I ask because I visited a dealership where the salesman told me a 1 year extended warranty on a Honda Civic would cost "around $350" (I knew it was actually $424) but when he calculated the monthly payments, he said the extra warranty would be $12/month, which works out to be $576 on a 48 month lease. Way more than the price he originally quoted or the price Honda gives on their website. I didn't call him on it because I was already getting a bad vibe from him and I just wanted to get away as fast as possible, but how do most salesmen react when you catch them in their lies?

Being a woman, I also wonder if salesmen think we are less informed than men. I'd be curious to know others' experiences.

[exserviceguy]

Hi Kayeyeemm,
As someone with a lot of dealership experience under the belt (albeit in service) I do believe you are right.  If you are well informed the sales process is a lot shorter, more to the point, and easier.  The best information you can have is 1) what specifics you need in a vehicle, and 2) what your absolute budget is.  And don't move from those positions.  Keep in mind on vehicle packages it doesn't do you any good to demand manual locks with power windows because no manufacturer builds that way anymore.

[ndamro]

Kayeyeemm I had no problems as a woman dealing with my sales person.  Of course she was also a woman. She knew I had done my reasearch, that I knew what I wanted, and that I knew what the other dealers were willing to offer.  

We hit one small bump in the road when she thought I was trying to get her to undercut the dealer across town simply so I could go back there and get an even better rate, but once we straightended that out, we had no problems.

Everything was quick, to the point and very out in the open.  I told her what I wanted, what I expected to pay and what I expected for my trade in.  She shuffled a few numbers, I got what I wanted and she threw in some free stuff and offered me cost on a few other things she knew I was thinking of.  It was a great relationship and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another vehicle from her when it's time to replace my husband's aging truck.

Hang in there, there are some decent ones out there, but trust your gut instinct.  We actually asked around to find out which dealerships people had delt with and which one offered the best service, etc.  Everyone told us to deal with the one we chose and I can definately see why.

[Roadrunner]

There's the proof word of mouth rules.

[barrie1]

Yes word of mouth advertising can either make you or break you. Doing an homest job does have its rewards.

[bmw]

<<I once overheard a customer ask for $10,000 off on an MDX.  
We were laughing hard after the customer left.>>

Last October I bought a new vehicle with an MSRP of $18,700 for $15,000. All I paid were taxes...NO additional charges. That is 20% off.

I'd imagine I could get more than just a key fob thrown into an MDX deal. LOL.

I guess I was the one that was laughing.

[JSCC]

Depends on the situation.

If your new car was a previous year model or had strong manufact. rebates, 20% is more than possible.
But for the MDX I mentioned, was a brand new 2005 model with MSRP of 50,800. And we only had about 8% markup, which equals to about 4,000 with no rebates.

Would it be possible to sell an SUV to a customer at cost and give out 6,000 for free.

[bmw]

An end of model year. Still the same vehicle though.

There was a manufacturer to dealer rebate which I found out about and then I tacked on a hefty discount to it. Dealers are sly and don't tell you everything even when asked.