Topic: How to buy advice

[spid]

I want to buy a new 05 Tacoma 4x4, crew cab, sr5 with manual.

I have looked at the access price, and it seems reasonable, and I would if I had to be prepared to pay it.

The problem is, I have no idea if they will let me have the vehicle for this, and whether this is a fair price. Will I be able to get the truck any cheaper?

I really don't want to get ripped off, and certainly don't want to speak to a sales person until I know exactly what I want. Can I negotiate over the phone? or fax? or email?  
I realise this is dumb question, but feared that I am suceptible to Jedi mind trick.

Any advice is gratefully recieved.

I know nothing, as have only driven junk for last 10 years, but have finally got tired of fixing them at the side of the road.

[Mdxtasy]

Welcome Spid.

You can fax a request for quote letter to local Toyota dealers asking for their best price on the make and model you are interested in.  The ones interested in your business will fax you back a quote.

[triple_b]

Having recently experienced dealing with Toyota (my girlfriend is picking up a new Matrix), I suspect you will find them less than willing to deal.  You can definitely negotiate over the phone or by fax or email.  However, in my (limited) experience, email doesn't work as dealers don't take you seriously and will just quote you list prices.  

You might have better luck with fax, but I've never tried that method.  My girlfriend negotiated over the phone, but beware of dealers asking for deposits before you are ready to give one.    

My understanding of Toyota's pricing is that they don't like to move much on price.  You might be better off asking for extra options to be thrown in rather than discounts, which is where my girlfriend made some headway.  Keep in mind that if its on the lot you have a much better chance of getting a deal.  If its going to be ordered, expect to pay full price, IMO.

[ovr50]

Kind of depends where Spid is located. If a larger urban area, there may be several Toy shops willing to compete a bit for a deal. If in a smaller city or rural area, there will likely be only one Toy dealer, and no dealing may be possible.

[spid]

Thanks for the advice chaps,

I live in vancouver so there are lots of dealerships to choose from, I emailed one for a price quote and he emailed me back the htm (website) directly off the toyota website.

He also claims that there would be a 3-4 month wait on this vehicle - could there be any truth to this?

I am not prepare to haggle endlessly for 2-300 bucks off, just hoping to avoid getting hosed

[ovr50]

I would think a delay on an order would be the norm right now for the Taco as it is in demand. 4 months might be a bit pessimistic but it would likely be at least 2 months and even 3 or more. I doubt you will get the dealers to discount much if any, even in Vanc. Good luck, its a nice truck.

[davidy]

Have you considered the 2005 Nissan Frontier pickup as an alternative? If I was buying a midsize pickup right now, I would definately consider both the Tacoma and the Frontier.

Dave

[barrie1]

If you can't get the price you want have a good look at the new Colorado's trucks from GM. They will probably be cheaper and good value for the money as well.

[thirdwheel]

I'm a new buyer too and I ended up going to 5 different Mazda dealerships before buying the 3 in White Rock, and I live in Vancouver.

One dealer wanted a deposit, after we gave them an offer, to guarantee that we were 'serious' buyers. Some dealers do this, but I don't believe in giving away my credit card # until the final price is settled. Plus, it makes it easier to walk away.  

Then there was this other dealership that offered me free membership to their 'club' that had free oil & filter changes for life. Fine Print: a complete scheduled service must be performed to receive the free oil change.

Another dealer, after finalizing the price, wanted me to sign without telling me the documentation fee. I refused to sign anything until sales manager waived the fee -- it was $400! (paid cash btw)

So here's some tips avoid being cheated:
- find the invoice price for the car you want with the options
- ask what other people are paying for the same car
- ask for the bottom line price from the dealer, and what it does and doesn't include
- when you get what seems to be a good offer, tell the dealer you need go home (ie time) to think it over
- never make hasty decisions, especially at the dealership
- it may be easier to talk price over the phone after you visit the dealership in person
- research, research, research -- information is power! but don't let the dealership know what you know

}

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Thirdwheel, excellent post and suggestions. I'd recommend the same, especially where the 'give me some time to think about it' is concerned.

The Tacoma is a great truck. Went to see them, and it's a solid product. The interior is superior to the previous version, and to the other compact trucks I've seen. The seat still sits low and needs a telescopic wheel, but worlds better than in the past in almost every respect. Toyota trucks have never really sold all that well in Canada, as opposed to the US where the Tundra sells over 100,000 units annually now and the Tacoma is BY FAR the #1 compact truck in California, and probably coming up on the FSizers. Huge numbers there.

That said, Toyota Canada is taking a serious look at boosting truck volume here (lowering pricing, making more equipment standard and packaging it better, actually advertising the thing) and the launch of the '05 Taco has been very strong from the sales figures I've seen. It wouldn't surprise me to think that unit availablility may be tight in the short term, if TCI might have ordered fewer for the country than they perhaps should have based on past experience.

Spid, from what I understand, it's hard to buy a Toyota in the provinces with Access Toyota at substantially less than what MSRP is. I'd recommend consulting the APA and seeing what they tell you.  

But, no matter, I think the new Tacoma is an execeptional truck and I'm happy to see you're considering it. Would love to see another one on the road. Keep us updated on the happenings!

[spid]

Thanks for all your comments, I have e-mailed most dealers in vancouver and it is starting to seem as if none of the dealers will shift from the Access price. I guess there is not too much I can do about that, and I am not too disturbed by the fact that they all claim they have to order the truck and there will be a two month wait.
The question is, which dealer do I choose? They have to offer something better than the next dealer to get my business, or are toyota truly like a supermarket?
Do they give no incentives to earn extra business?

[ovr50]

I'm not at all surprised none of the Lower Mainland Toy dealers will budge on price. That is the rule rather than the exception. I would chose based on 2 things - 1. ask around and see which has the best service dept and shop and, 2. what is most convenient for you. Knowing Vanc. as I do, I would not want to live in North Vanc and have to go to White Rock for service (for eg). Also, the new 05 Taco is held in high regard and demand right now so no deals are possible. Either pay now or wait a year or so in the hope that you may get a better price.

[ndamro]

Are any of the dealers offering you dealer specific incentives?  I know when I emailed the dealers in my city (Edmonton) they would always tell me what they were offering as an incentive.  The dealership I will likely go with is offering a free 2 way remote starter installed and 5 years of free oil changes (2/year) with no fine print or requirement for service.  I also had offers for little freebies (mats, etc) and free tires for the life of the vehicle (I can only imgaine how cheap they would be!).

You may not be able to get them to budge on price, but an incentive here or there may sway your business!  Also as Ovr50 has said, you wouldn't want to live half a league away from your dealership just for a free oil change now and again.

[nick53a]

That's too bad.  That dealers don't take consumers serious.

I do understand how they feel.  Especially if you send an email to every dealer in the province.  If I was the dealer 2-300Km from you I would feel that you would take my price to your local dealer to have them match it.  If they all quote list price.  Well there is some integrity in the list price.  This is usually found with import dealers, as they sell less volume in Canada.  They have to make more $ per car, otherwise why spend hundreds of thousands to be a dealer.

[bmw]

I take 10% off MSPR, give or take a few %. More on an upper end vehicle.

I don't pay the rediculous "Pre-Delivery Charges".
Ask them what a mechanic does to a new car for 7+ hours. Yup, take the PDI charge (exclude freight) and divide it by the shop rate and you'll end up at those hours. Besides, you are buying a new vehicle, why should you pay to have it checked?

I don't pay the rediculous "Administration Fees". What do they do, pay a clerk $20/hr to process your sale for 10 to 15 hours? Get the picture?

If the dealer says they "need to tack on those charges", fine, let them. You'll just "need to" tack them to the discount.

In the past, I have paid (0.9 x MSPR) + $350 + PST + GST.

One more important thing. Don't go for any of the dealer packages such as rustproofing, paint protection, fabric protection, etc. They start off with some rediculous charge (I've seen more than $1000) and then knock it down to about $400 to lure you into thinking you are getting a great deal. Pass on it. Get your car Krown rustproofed, and buy a can of polish/wax and a few cans of 3M ScotchGuard and do the rest yourself. Cost? Under $200 and done right.

(Message edited by BMW on March 24, 2005)

[Driver]

good point Bmw!

I never did realize how "stooopid" PDI charges really are... thanks for bringing that up

[bmw]

Crolly,

I worked at a few dealerships. My first summer job was prepping cars. Dealers have a gopher (me) clean the exterior and interior of the car at minimum wage (or thereabouts) and then a mechanic gets the car for maybe one hour.

I once called several dealerships and spoke to the service department as to what was done on a PDI. Answers I got:

"We fill the windshield fluid bottle". (Wow a big $2)

"We tighten the wheel nuts". Don't! I'm buying a new car. If the wheels fall off, I'll just sue. You mean you want me to pay so that doesn't happen to my new car.

"We check all the fluid levels". Don't! Its a new car. If the engine seizes, I'll have it covered under warranty.

And they had more lame answers as to what they do during PDI/PDE. And for that, they want $500 or more.

When they stop treating as if I were an idiot, they'll get some respect from me.

[Sterling]

It's always intrigued me that many people say that they should be allowed time to think about what seems to be a good deal. These are the same people who have found the invoice price on the vehicle, frequented internet chat boards, and researched, researched, and researched. After all this, what is there to think about?  

When someone like this says, "I still have to think about it", isn't it obvious that they mean, "I still have to go shop your price."

Who's treating who like an idiot?

[bmorton]

That's one way to think about it. Another would be that some people like to be able to review what "seems" to be a good deal away from the pressure of the hot seat in the sales office. Last time I got into a new car I did all the negotiations by fax. Took longer with the faxing back and forth but I had all the time I needed to go over the various numbers in the comfort of MY office and work out a deal that was satisfactory.

[bmw]

When someone like this says, "I still have to think about it", isn't it obvious that they mean, "I still have to go shop your price."

And what is wrong with that?

No worse than a salesperson with 20 years under their belt playing the old "I have to run it by the sales manager" routine. As if they didn't know what they can really sell a car for after all those years in the business.