Topic: No Heat 89n VW

[articsteve]

He has isolated the heater core.  The dude gets it. He is a DIY guy. He has a plugged core.  Zero pathway.  Baking soda will not create a pathway.  It's a good idea for an active general flush though.

He pours the drano in one of the elevated hoses.  Leaves it in a few hours, hopefully flushes it threw with hot water.  This may take a few attempts.  After he gets his pathway he flushes with a hose or compressed air.  Its all out.  Re -attaches hoses to motor.  Nobody says anything about circulating drano in his motor except you.

Have you ever seen a heater core?  3/8 steel pipe with a header.  You ever removed a heater core before?  If you have then you would be trying this first.

[maritime_storm]

Actually in most cars they're made of copper or aluminium with brazed on steel or copper pipes, same as the radiator. Also he mentioned he is getting some flow, but very little.

[stcywll]

It was too cold to mess around with Drano.So, I reversed the inlet and outlet hoses to the core, and added a box of baking soda. I have gotten a bit of warm air so far, enough to defrost the windows.

[articsteve]

Of course all this kind of stuff happens in the middle of winter.  Are you working outside?  It be hard to flush the Drano out of the core without a garden hose.

(Message edited by articsteve on January 28, 2005)

[stcywll]

I,m stumped. I flushed out the heater core with the high pressure hose at the car wash. It came out on end as just as fast as it went in  the other,so the heater core is nnot blockeed. Both heater hoses are hot and the blend door is working , so now I dont know what else too do.

[barrie1]

I strongly suspect an air lock in your system, Put your heater controls on hi max and your fan with the rad full and your cap off. Let the car run and wait with more fluid handy to fill it up as it burps itself out. Get the car up to as close to full operating temp as possible and be patient and let the burping finish. This hopefully will resolve this problem.  

[articsteve]

Does this car have a temperature gauge?  Is the motor getting up to a normal operating temperature?

Did you add some anti-freeze to the heater core hoses after you used the high pressure hoses?  In other words are they full of just water?

As Barrie says I suppose your next step is to verify actual circulation through the heater hoses.

You might want to buy some hose of the same diameter so you can extend the return line enough that you can lift it higher than any cooling point on the motor.  In other words splice another piece in.

Then buy a fitting, metal or plastic with a bleed valve of some sort on it.  You might need to make this up.  Home Depot have a lot of weird fittings in their plumbing section.  Place this fitting at the highest point possible.

Take off the upper rad hose and fill it up manually, fill up the heater hoses manually and then reinstall.  Start car and then start to open the valve on the fitting and see what you get out of it; air or antifreeze or a mix of both.

You need to confirm that you are getting a descent flow rate thru the heater hoses.  Feeling them doesn't count. It's a bad time of year for this because you will be going thru a far amount of anti-freeze.

It's a super b*tch I know because I have a mechanically breakdown at this very time as well that has got me good.

[barrie1]

Whats happened Artic? Can I help you maybe? Ask away if you like as I will try to asisst you if I can.

[articsteve]

I appreciate the offer, but I am SOL on this one.

The deal is with respect to the starter in my winter unit; 95 Saab, but with the disaster GM V6 shoe horned into it.  Starter buried up inside the fire wall side.  However, the specific problem is that the starter is held by 2 open torques.  The bottom is reasonably accessable.  The top is accessable only with a 3 foot extension and just barely after removal of the alt.  The problem is somebody before me used, I assume, a metric socket on it and it is all stripped to h*ll.

So needless to say, the starter croked last night in an IGA parking lot and me and the wife took a cab home and I went back later with a jack and some stands but I was unable to get it to give me one last start.  The starter has been an issue for a few months, but I sincerely thought I had it licked as I had done some work to it as installed.

I can't work on this problem lying on the floor any longer.  It needs to go on a lift so I'm arranging for that now.  

[barrie1]

Sounds like either the brush's or the Bendix. I have rebuilt a starter under a street light once. Put new solinoid and bendix drive in. Is the starter dead or just grinding on the flywheel? Hopefully it is as then you can hand turn the engine over to reach a new spot on the gear or the Flywheel. It does sound like a real weenie of a spot, you are gonna have to be creative on this fix. Yes that can be a weenie without a hoist. Been there.

[Roadrunner]

Artic,
Waddayamean disaster GM? GM don't build disasters. Besides, starters can crap out on any engine.

[articsteve]

Barrie it's electrical.  This starter is in a zero clearance type of location.  Tucked up and behind the exhaust manifold.  You see the car did have a no start one day and it got towed back and after about 10 hours of work split between me and the son we got the solenoid rewired and rigged another insulated terminal on the stater base which had rotten off and it was back to working.  But who needs this BS, hey?  Basically the unit is not receiving enough juice.  A basic maintenance issue turned into a nightmare.

Road; the 94 900s to 96 I believe, were suddenly equipped with a V6 option because some twit in the USA thought that Americans would not buy this car with a 4 banger, turbo or not.  So they dreamed up this V6 and shoe horned it into a spot that normally fit a 4.

So the thing hits the streets in North America and the timing belts are flying off the units and destroying the heads.  Re-designed for 95, but still bad.  I noticed my 95 had at 30,000 km an update belt, tensioner and all rollers installed under recall (the third version).

The problem was so bad that the only way Saab could sell the cars was to offer 3, free, timing belt jobs with every car retroactive.  I have never heard of anything like this before.  The belt is good for 57,000 km.  Shows you what poor confidence they have in that design, plus it is a big belt.

At 200,000 km I take the car in for a recall on the air bag system and they tell me the timing belt is due and that GM may still pay for it. They called me a week later and said GM Oshawa said OK which is pretty amazing for a 9 year old car with 200,000 km.  Next time I was in TO I dropped it off, stuck around and weasled my way back into the shop. The head tech was training an apprentice on it so I got to stick around which was great.  However, the tensioner bearings were going so I got nailed with yet the final update which retailed for $550. which includes a roller plus I needed another roler for $125.00.  HAHAHA.  I settled for $450. tax but, wippie. I have oil weeping out of that cylinder head.  

They also have an inherent leak in the oil sump or whatever the bloddy thing is but that was fix under a previous warranty.

I had noticed in the HUGE repair file that came with the car that all the valves on one side where completely replaced and the head tech guy said he remembered that incident.  An apprentice was assigned to fix the oil sump leak and the car was in one bay and he went to move it into another bay and the car was the middle of a timing belt job and it bent the valves.  I think they should by routine, disconect the battery during a timing belt job, but I noticed that they didn't on the job I got to watch.

I will seriously look for a 99 4 banger non turbo in a manual in the next few years.  I really like these cars  The hatch is amazing on these 900s and the car is classic Swedish safety.  But I think they have lost their way thanks to the Americans who removed the hatch from these cars which was a huge boob.

The dealer is Town and Country Saab, owned by the huge Roy Foss GM network and for a dealer are first class. North Toronto/ Yonge near Steeles.

[barrie1]

Artic it may be cheaper to have that starter rebuilt as I would hate to pay the price of a new one.

[articsteve]

The problem is with removing it, not with fixing it.  We are going to pull the motor out of it. My friend who is a licensed mechanic and use to working on crap thinks we can get it out with the tranny attached.  I got the hood off already and most everything detached except the axles. Problem is I bet I'll need new motor mounts so this is really turning into what I had dreaded a few months ago.

[barrie1]

Sounds like a weenie of a job. At least the car will be fine after the surgery and driveable again. Might as well give it all the treats now while you have it apart. We all get caught on occasion on some of these nasty ones. Hope it goes well for you.  

[articsteve]

I'd say more of a weiner. No pain no gain right?  I'm too old for this I'm thinking.  They can put a guy on the moon in 69 we should be able to get this out and back in.  I'm waiting on my pal to show up right now and then we'll start.  My son brought an engine hoist from his dealership last night so we are already to go.