Topic: $60,000 car for $11K?

[johnny5]

I’ve been looking at buying a 1996 or 1997 Cadillac STS.   The new price for these cars was $60K.  Now they can be had for under $11K with fewer than 140,000 Kms on them.  Researching the various Cadillac forums, owners seem to be happy with them.  The 4.6L Northstar engine lasts forever.  Some problems with head gaskets and oil seals and replacement struts are $500 a piece.  I would have it checked out by a Cadi dealer.  Why such a large depreciation on these cars?  I remember a TSN motoring 2002 show where Jim Menzie? said the best used value on the road today was a used Cadillac, considering the depreciation.  Anyone had any experience with a STS?  Thanks in advance for the feedback

[Bullet Blue]

Barrie might be able to give you some useful advice on this one, but from what I've heard like saabs, they are very good used car buys. Personally, I don't know if i'd want that much power driver the front wheels. but then again, for $11K, it could be tempting...

[johngenx]

If $11,000 is your budget, forget it.  If you can afford more, but want a good buy, you should consider it.  Repairs can be expensive on the STS and you should not own one if you're hoping that it will require as few repairs as a new Corolla.  BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-Class cars depreciate terribly too, and people get themselves in over their head not realizing the potential costs of ownership.

The reason for the low used prices is that on-going cost of ownership.

[johnny5]

From what I can see here in Ottawa, there are more STS's on the road than top line BMWs and MBs.  A quick scan of on-line wreakers tells me used parts are plentiful and compared to the Europeans, cheap.  

Maybe Barrie will post.

[wing]

Aren't they FWD?

[safristi]

Yup oldiewans are the newbies are RWD...thinkin' of trading in fer one Jamesbe...I don't think they come in...YELLOW...

[johnny5]

Yes they are FWD with full range traction control.

[articsteve]

It's not my type of car, but I don't think they are a bad choice with respect to repairs.

Just stay clear of any models that have a automatic leveling suspension.  That would be a nightmare.  It just looked at some of those prices and they are about a grand per shock assembly.  The normal struts are cheap to repair.  Ball joints 40 bucks.  Everything very resonable actually.

I noticed that the model was redesigned in 1999.  93 thru 98 seem to be mostly the same.

I would be very careful about rear main seal leaks if that is whst you were referring to.  I think I heard that the book time on a tranny just to remove is 12 hours.  Other than that, the car seems OK in terms of cheap repair parts.

Front rotors are a tad expensive @ 200 bucks with ABS.

Are 96/97 recommended years on the STS BBS?

(Message edited by articsteve on January 24, 2005)

[johnny5]

Those are the years that the interior was re-designed.  All major functions (climate and stereo) were now housed in the centre consol.  Also climate and stereo controls on steering wheel.  I’ve sat in 96-97 and 93-95.  Much more logical layout in the later years.  Plus, most bugs worked out by then.

Struts from GM parts direct in the USA are $309 US dollars each.  

On the STS forums the newer the better is recommended.

[william_w]

Take it for what it is worth.  

My neighbor bought a 98 STS used in 2001.  Right after the warranty expired, the transmission went, and it costed him $5,000 to replace the transmission.  And that was with an independent shop, I was told the dealer want $8k to get it replaced.

[barrie1]

These are a great Driving Machine but do have a few bugbears to watch out for. There has been a no. of TSB's out on the trannies so when You buy one have them looked at by the dealer. The Northstar engine is one of the top 5 rated engines in the world and are very dependable. The newer ones are much better then the older ones for sure. Neither of my Cars have this engine as Mine are of the older design. You will have to pay for parts on these as there is almost no after market avalaibility of any parts other then your GM Dealer. These are a Nice Touring Car which I would like to have myself even with some of the little glitches.  

[articsteve]

Johnny; no need to buy an entire strut.  They all have repairable parts like mounts, the mount bearing.  Seems to me to be an unusally large non GM dealer supply.  Looks like a ton.  Moog, NAPA, TRW, Motormite

AC/DELCO strut cartridge is $82.00 US so that is about $105 CDN.  The bearing is $30 US, 2 required per strut.  That is not bad.  Mount bearing for a 95 Saab 900  is $155 CDN each side aftermarket to give you a comparison.

[barrie1]

It all depends on what parts are required as to where they can be purchased for these cars. They are starting to get better with the inclusion of front end parts and suspensions. About time as it should help lower some of the prices.

[johnny5]

Usually the electronics for the road sensing suspension, inside the strut pack it in.  The whole strut must then be replaced.  You can swap the system over to 4 passive struts, by putting a resistor in line with the output of the strut.  This fools the ECU into thinking an electronic strut assembly is there.  However, you lose one of the best features of the car this way.

As for tranny problems, a Cadillac dealer should be able to call up any faults with a code reader prior to purchase.  

You can even do a rudimentary code check yourself in the car, by playing with the HVAC controls, after a test drive.

[articsteve]

Why would an owner ever want to replace this strut, which does not include the mount and bearing, which besides the cartridge, is what wears out:

FRONT SUSP RED ELECTRIC ADJ-STRUT
Note: spring code 6yp; sport suspension (fe3); chassis, realtime damping(f45); suspension (6yp); left hand; $537.40 USD.

The rear shocks are even more stupid:

REAR LEVELING SHOCK RED ELECTRIC ADJ-ABSORBER
Note: soft ride suspension (fe1); chassis, realtime damping(f45) $537.40 USD EACH!  

I have a pic, but it is greater than 30kb so it won't load. Here is the link:

thttp://catservices.wrencheadpro.com/SmartPages/partinfo/ACD/580-117.gif  

It's uses just the standard GM format so I'm sure a conventional one is available for a 100 bucks or so.

Don't focus on the tranny codes.  On a used car focus on the condition of the tranny fluid.  I will bet only one in ten of these vehicles that sit on used car lots have had their tranny's completely flushed and filter changed even once.  That is what is important.  Many 97s will have 140,000 km at the very least and very few will have seen a fluid change.  That is not good for long life.  Codes don't show that.

Going by the parts lists, 99 seem to have had a big change.  I think the safety was greatly improved. I remember reading about how unsafe the earlier units proved out to be in crash tests.  For example, there is a huge difference in crash worthiness between a 99 and a 2000 LeSabre.

Only good thing I can see about this car is that it uses regular gas.  I can't see been able to get rid of a used one easily for a decent buck. However, each to his own.

[johnny5]

Northstar engines used premium gas until 1999 model year, then switched to regular in 2000.

1992-1997 STS's received a 4 star rating for both driver and passenger in NTHSA crash tests.

I agree with your tranny theory.  However, Cadi owners are usually anal about their rides. I know my father and grandfather were.  

I will insist on maintenance records or no sale.


(Message edited by johnny5 on January 26, 2005)

[articsteve]

Johnny, show me a link.  I went to the NTHSA and all I could find are tests for Devilles 2000 and down.  4 star is not that good and a few years they rated the driver's side at 3 stars and that is no surprise based on the seat belt system used in that car.

2000 must be the big engineering improvement for Cadillac because it was on many full sized GM cars.

A vast majority of those cars were originally leased due to the cost.  Leased cars generally receive little to no good long term preventative maintenance.

My sister in the states bought a 2001 Seville.  They were going to get a 9-5 Saab becasue she was driving her Canadian 94 900 Turbo unit at the time.  But went for the Seville because it was no interest for 5 years as well as a big discount.  It's a large heavy car.  I must say the car is very quite.  The seat belts are anchored into the front seat backs.
The head restraints for anyone of descent height are a joke.

GM markets the car as low maintenance.  They change the oil and that is it.

One will need to find a one owner private sale.  Not an easy task as the Trader shows 99% of STS as Dealer cars.

[rocko...]

I spoke with a gentleman recently who knows cars very well.  His thoughts on depreciation made a lot of sense in regards to the higher priced vehicles.  BMW 7 series, 5 series and yes the Cadillac may depreciate considerably, however, the types of buyers are older, more mature and choose to purchase a new one after the lease is up ... etc.  On that note.... if your personal mechanic says the car is solid... it's in the budget and you like what you see...... go crazy!

I recently purchased a 98 BMW 328i... a new one is not in the budget quite yet, however, it sure does drive like it's new!!  I did not think it was possible to fall in love with a car!  j/k

[Giant Dwarf]

Ah yes, the '98 328i.  DavidM and I know it well.  Wonderful car as long as the electrics behave.  The engine/transmission/clutch are indestructable though.

[safristi]

Hope "Ayn's" good with a potentiometer...!!!....watch out fer the blue propellor on yer beanie....when you open the sun-roof