Author Topic: All season or summer? (Read 6338 times)

trueno86 · « **on:** January 16, 2005, 09:32:28 pm »

Hi,

Sorry for the long post but I'm looking for some advice as to what kind of tire I should buy. I'm a noob and don't know much about tires.

I have a 2001 VW GTI 1.8t with 215/45/R17 stock rims (I think that's the right size). I am currently using 205/55/R16 Nokian Hakkapalita-1 winter tires but one of my tires was ripped up from hitting a curb. Since I can't seem to find my tire anymore, I have to buy an entire set.

However, I need to replace my summer tires as well which I was hoping to do at summer.

So, here are my two options.

Buy all season tires now that will suffice for the Toronto winter weather for this season, and keep these all season's as my summers. Then when winter comes next year, buy a new set of winter tires.

Or,

Buy a set of winter tires now and when summer comes, buy a new set of summer tires.

The first option may save me money in the short term but may sacrifice performance during the summer (not that I race or anything). The second option will cost me a lot more in a shorter period but I'd be able to get decent tires for each season.

So, in your opinion, what should I do? I don't even know what kind of summer tires to get. Any suggestions for my car? I'm looking for a set that will provide me really good treadlife, grip and handling.

Thanks!

RayT · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2005, 11:24:16 pm »

You're going to be slapping yourself if you buy some all-seasons that are nearly useless in the snow....but yet also feel bad in the summer.

If you do go all-seasons, try something like the Continental Extreme Contacts, they are at least one of the few high perf tires that aren't absolute dangerous in the snow.

trueno86 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 17, 2005, 11:06:55 am »

So if you don't recommend using all seasons for the remainder of the winter, then I guess you definitely wouldn't recommend me getting summer tires and use them for the rest of the winter either eh :-)

I was just wondering, what would happen if I kept only two of my winter tires on the rear wheels and place my current set of summer tires on the front wheels. They are different size rims (see original post). I know I'd lose traction in the front but at least I would still have good traction in the back. This would then allow me to buy real summer tires when the weather get warmer and in the winter, I can get another set of new winter tires. Any comments on having different size tires for front and back?

btw, my friend told me how great this website is for any car questions so that's why I joined. I'm really enjoying browsing through the other topics. Wish I knew of this earlier.

edit: my summer tires are actually all season Michelin Pilot MXM4 and are size P225/45/R17. Maybe it won't be such a bad idea using the all season and winters for now. Any comments on the different sizes?

(Message edited by trueno86 on January 17, 2005)

adamd · « **Reply #3 on:** January 17, 2005, 11:20:11 am »

Trueno86,

I wouldn't take too many of the comments here to heart (including mine). The majority of this forum are against all-terrains. That is possibly because this is a tire sales forum in a way, so the owners obviously want you to buy two sets of tires (one for summer, one for winter). The reality is, unless you get tons of snow, there is really no need for winter tires. All-terrains perform fine in snow. Do they perform as good as winter tires? No. But it's a balance and saves money. And if you drive safely, you will be fine. People in this forum have tried to pull the "Yeah, a few extra dollars, but this is your life we are talking about". That is the typical argument used to make people go out and buy two sets of tires when they don't really need them.

I would look around your city and decide if you really need winter tires. Forget about rain, all-terrains do awesome in rain. So just count how many days a year it snows or gets icy out. Out here in Vancouver, where TireTrends is housed, it only happens 2 weeks a year (right now). Yet, tire companies still push winter tires like mad.

Bottom line is, Winter tires are like ABS breaking. If you know how to drive, you don't need them. But if you are a newbie who likes to slam on his/her breaks all the time, or likes to drive 80kms/hr in a snow blizzard, then get the winter tires ..... and for the love of god, get ABS too!

trueno86 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 17, 2005, 11:29:45 am »

Hey Adamd,

Thanks for your advice. I know Toronto doesn't get that much snowfall during the winter so all seasons would be fine (drove with them for over 10 years already). However, I do drive outside of Toronto frequently and the places I do drive usually have a lot of snow. I would rather have snow tires on than all seasons when driving on an unplowed, unlit small country road.

I can avoid the treks outside of toronto for the rest of this winter, so I don't need snow tires immediately. However, my all seasons do need to be replaced so they aren't a viable solution for now. They slip often on wet pavement so I'm sure they'll slip a lot more on snow or ice.

So any comments on driving with different size tires? It'll only be until the weather gets warmer and I can put new summers on.

RayT · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2005, 11:41:24 am »

I absolutely disagree with Adamd.

You paid a lot of money for your fancy car, and if you really like to drive, good tires are the cheapest way to really enhance your driving experience.

Whether you "need" them or not, winter tires are a good investment....they buy you an extra margin of safety. Even if you are not an aggressive driver, there are always situations that are not forseeable where you may want that extra insurance. But hey, like anything in life, it's your comfort level that matters. I used to use all-seasons...but now I'm a winter tire convert. I will NEVER buy all-seasons again.

davidm · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:16:34 pm »

All-Seasons (not All-Terrains, that's a model name in truck tires) do NOT cost more in the long haul. You buy 2 sets of A/S tires for every set of summers and set of winters you buy. The only extra cost is an extra set of wheels ($200-250 for steels which you can flip for $100 after you use them) or switching over twice a year ($160 / year which I view as a waste vs. 2nd set of wheels).

Second, I take great offense at the suggestion that we are here to sell wheels. The sponsor, TireTrends (Arch and Mort) sell tires for a living, and they are very good at not "selling" on this forum. The rest of us drive vehicles (not for a living) and have not vested interest in you buying two sets of tires or not (other than I don't want you sliding into me 'cause you think A/S tires can handle the weather we just had in Vancouver). I have owned 4 sets of A/S tires, 3 sets of winter tires, and 3 sets of summer tires, and the performance differences in simple highway driving, climbing hills in Burnaby/North Van, etc. is astonishing. Are A/S tires terrible, no, are they not as good, absolutely. If you can afford $30k on a car, you can afford $1k for a second set of wheels and tires (that will save you $600 3 years from now when you need new A/S tires). If you can't afford $1k for a set of tires, you should be driving something else.

Further Adamd, if you are a driver who knows something about driving, you'll notice they all use winter/summer tires. I'm not even going to get into the ABS commentary since you are clearly an advanced driver who has mastered threshold breaking to the point where your skill level overcomes the physics of the coefficient of friction of various tire rubber compounds.

I know this is troll bait, but it bugs me that Trueno86 might be listening.

bob · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:21:42 pm »

Ice is another factor that A/S tires do not help with one tiny bit. You need winter rubber compounding to give you traction on ice, and an all season will not do that.

Sure you can get around in snow on all season, but it is when you need to hit the brakes in an emergency, or when you need to swere out of the way of someone who cut you off or couldn't stop because he wasn't on winter, that you will benefit in a major way from winter tires...

Safety is safety, and if you need to equate it to savings instead off safety to justify the cost, then ask yourself how much it will cost you to get in an accident, even a minor one, compared to the relative expense of having a proper set of tires...

ovr50 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:34:27 pm »

Adamd - you are very wrong in your above post, but others have already told you that so I'll save my breath. If you think that ppl on here are recommending 4 snows on separate rims just because one of the forum sponsors is TireTrends, you are indeed mistaken. Personally, I was running 4 snows on rims long before I found out about this forum about 3 years ago. Your advice to Trueno86 is inaccurate, irresponsible and dangerous.

trueno86 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:36:55 pm »

Thanks everyone for your advice but this thread isn't a war between winter vs. all season. I already mentioned that I want to buy a set of winters as well as a set of summers. I'm not cheap but spending $2000 within a small time frame is quite a lot of money that I don't want to spend right after the holiday season.

So please stop this war of winter vs. all season and give me some sound advice. I'm a very critical person so I always over-think anything someone ever tells me. This is an online community and I have no idea who any of you are. As far as I know, you can all be 14 year old teenagers who are just obsessed with forums (I already came to the conlusion that you're not). I was just thanking Adamd for his opinion about this forum. Doesn't mean I agree or not but at least he replied.

So please, let's get back onto my question and give me some advice of what the consequences may be for having different size tires (see my third post above)

thanks for your help

(Message edited by trueno86 on January 17, 2005)

multipath · « **Reply #10 on:** January 17, 2005, 12:37:11 pm »

Adamd, yes this part of the forum is facilitated by a tire vendor, but as far as I know, Rayt is not in tire sales, nor affiliated with Tire Trends. Neither am I, as are most posters in here.

You cannot cover up the fact that winter tires are made of a different material from A/S, though you can certainly come up with a variety of excuses why you don't need true winter tires. Suit yourself, it's your car, your money, your insurance premiums and your life. Just don't go kill someone else.

trueno86 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:08:21 pm »

I'll answer my own question. Seems that the overall wheel diameter is pretty close (24.97" vs. 24.88"). After a lot of reading and research, it seems that the only major impact is that my actual speed will be slightly different than what my odometer reads.

So thank you all for your help. I have decided to mount the all season tires on the front, and keep the winter tires on the back. In the summer, I will purchase a new set of summer tires. In the winter, I will purchase a new set of winter tires.

You may now continue your war of winter vs. all season tires!

laj · « **Reply #12 on:** January 17, 2005, 01:54:30 pm »

On Monday I was driving uptown on hard packed, glossy snow. There was little traction so operating at reduced speed (35-40 kmh). A car slid through a stop sign into my path about 30 feet ahead of me. I took evasive action to go around him to the left, didn't touch the brakes as I felt I had no chance to stop. The PT went around without any problems. Did the other car have winter tires? I don't know, I didn't stop to ask. How much did that save me in insurance and grief? I don't know, but I would rather not find out if I can prevent the accident in the first place. Was I going too fast for the conditions? Maybe, but I had a straight away road with no stop signs. It's your choice what you want to drive on. I know what I choose. (running Hankook 300 Ice Bears on all 4 corners)

P.S. I do not sell tires for anyone and I have been using dedicated winter tires for over 10 years now. IMHO, for me, there is no decision to be made, but to each his own.

laj · « **Reply #13 on:** January 17, 2005, 02:04:13 pm »

Trueno86

Just re-read the thread...When I bought my Blizzaks for my Sundance (previous car) I only put them on the front thinking that's all I needed. (front wheel drive). During the first snowstorm I lost control of the car when the back end "lost it". I went spinning down the street with no control at all. I didn't know how dangerous the car was with different types of tires front and back but I know now! I would caution against running winter/all-season combo.

Lloyd

ovr50 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 17, 2005, 02:12:50 pm »

Trueno86 - I would not mix a/s with winter tires but it's up to you. It's your car and your neck.

RayT · « **Reply #15 on:** January 17, 2005, 02:20:24 pm »

trueno86....

just be aware you are going to increase understeer with all-seasons in front, probably by a lot since your Michelins likely won't do that well in the snow. I personally think it's a dangerous mix....but you should try it out carefully to see how the car behaves.

If the tire diameters are truly as close as you stated, there should be no problem as far as that is concerned.

(Message edited by rayt on January 17, 2005)

johngenx · « **Reply #16 on:** January 17, 2005, 04:00:25 pm »

Bottom line is, Winter tires are like ABS breaking. If you know how to drive, you don't need them.

Uh, I think those of us that both know how to drive and use winter tires would disagree.

And I think you meant "braking" not "breaking." Brakes are very different from breaks. Homonyms, yes, synonyms, no.

mobil · « **Reply #17 on:** January 17, 2005, 04:01:20 pm »

Trueno86...(Hehe...InitialD fan??...)

Anyhow, Have you considered getting just Two Winter tires? And placing them both either on the front or back? This may be your cheapest route...

safristi · « **Reply #18 on:** January 17, 2005, 04:12:32 pm »

Yeah one on the Front one on the back...cheapest way to the ditch...!!!!!!

mobil · « **Reply #19 on:** January 17, 2005, 05:49:06 pm »

Possibly a new pair of Michelin Artic Alpins in front, and the better two remaining Hakkapeliitta's in the rear...Is this not a cheapy route to go?...All you have to do is remember to only rotate the pairs front to back, and vice versa...