Topic: Angry at Mazda!

[Giant Dwarf]

Hi experts, a good friend of mine has an '03 Protege5, 5 speed.  The car has just about 30,000 kms on it.  He's not an overly aggressive driver but when he had been noticing a reduction in braking power over the past couple of weeks.  When he took his car in for regular maintenance this week, they told him his rear brakes had seized up and as a result, have worn them out already.  His fronts are still fine (an indication that he hasn't been overly hard on the brakes).

The dealership told him that the regular wear items (ie. pads, machining the rotors and the labour associated therewith) are not covered under the warranty and he's on the hook for these.  Obviously the premature wear is a result of the fault in the rear brake system that caused the seizure, so he's mighty PO'ed that he has to shell out now for their screw up.

He called Mazda Canada's customer support line and they tried to tell him that 30,000 kms was normal for a new set of brakes and that he was SOL.

I'm no technical guru, but I sure as hell know that unless you're doing a lot of track time, you shouldn't burn through a set of brakes (especially REARs!) in that short order without a technical problem or some driver abuse.  Cripes, I put over 80,000 kms on my BMW and my rears were still 70% good!!!

Any suggestions how my buddy can convince Mazda to smarten up and pay up for their mistake?

[Snowman]

Tell you buddy that we will start a thread on this site dedicated to the subject. Also…sent a link to the” Don’t ’buy a Dodge” site and ask him to look at the visitor counter and consider the implications of having the dealers name smeared over the internet in this era on increased internet automotive research and shopping.

[S60]

I've been hearing some horror stories regarding Mazda and approving warranty work.
Just yesterday an associate of mine that lives in Newport Rhode Island is in a fight with Mazda USA
to fix his MY2003 Protege's caput transmission, with 20,000 miles.
He was saying that Mazda USA is not too willing to give him a new tranny.

Jeff1, your friend should do some research and see if this is common fault others are having, and gather some ammunition to throw at Mazda customer service.

[multipath]

I wouldn't settle for that BS from the dealership or Mazda Canada.  I have an '02 Protege, front brakes lasted until about 60,000 kms, rears are barely even worn, so they should not be considered normal to be gone at 30k.

Definitely time to try tough tactics - the "don't buy a Dodge" type thing might do the trick.  Or maybe one of those investigative consumer news reports, like "Marketplace" or "Olsen On Your Side."  Threaten that, and see how quickly they will change their tune.  Failing that, time to threaten small claims court.

[Giant Dwarf]

Some good suggestions, but it's certainly not worth his time or effort for small claims court.  All-told it's going to be less than $200 for the work, but he is on a tight budget and he and I both agree that it's just blatant thievery on Mazda's part which is why he'd like to pursuade them to see it his way.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I've had experience and find Mazda Canada extremely generous with warranty work. Even with my parent's '90 MPV way back when, the tranny went at 99K and they replaced it without so much of a word on our part.  

I think the Proteges are well known for having brake issues. BUT, as a manufacturer it's hard to know when someone is hard on the brakes and it IS a wear item that warranties simply do not cover (unless proven to be a defect). In this case, I simply think disc brakes are one of the biggest issues with Proteges. That said, to keep customers happy I would think they would go half way or do something for the customer.  

I think that the dealer's response would be the same at most other dealer's, luxury brands excluded. But that doesn't mean that they shouldn't or couldn't help you. But they certainly don't have to.

Of note, I replaced my rear pads twice before I had to replace my front. Perhaps less aggressive driving would cause this (less lean/weight put towards the front). I dunno.

[bmorton]

My experience has been that a lot of manufacturers have a travelling rep that visits dealerships to address situations exactly like this, and this person is the final arbiter of what's covered under warranty, not the service advisor at the dealership or the customer service line. I personally was in the same situation with VW a few years back and had to bring the car back in to be looked at by the factory rep, who decided the problem would be covered by warranty although the dealership had said no. Although I haven't needed it, I know that Subaru also has this kind of system.

If I was your friend I'd find out from the dealership if there's a similar way to appeal the decision.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Okay, so... coming back from lunch I see a Mazda3 2.0L with hazard lights on, stuck out into the off-ramp intersection a nose. Well, didn't look like he was going anywhere, and people were going around him (it's an advanced green light) but no one was going to help, so I did.  

Turns out he said he had a burning smell in the car, and the engine was running fine but the gears wouldn't engage. Manual tranny... 1st, 2nd, reverse. I assume the tranny or linkage was gone. Said it was the first issue he had with it - has 23K on it.  

So, I pushed him to the centre safety lane (used for either way of travel to turn) and he sat and waited for roadside assistance.  

What "fun".  

I knew Mazda had some auto tranny and brake issues, but manuals too?  

Hmmmm... will have to investigate more before settling on that Mazda5 over another VW Golf/GTi. I do stand by that Mazda honours their warranty well tho.

[multipath]

I sure hope that they do honour their warranties well and that I never have to test that.  So far my Mazda has been great (knock on wood), the only warranty items being missing bolts on the exhaust manifold heat shield, and a test of the A/C system when I felt it wasn't cold enough, though it came back within spec.

[saint11]

i've had no problems with the warranty for my mazda6. so far they have paid for everything that messed up on the car.

[bmorton]

Didn't have any trouble with warranty on my '02 Protege5 either, and I used it a few times. After its second winter the alloy wheels were corroding and Mazda agreed without a hassle to pay for all four to be refinished.

[RayT]

A coworker had a similar problem....however, they fixed it no charge. I guess it depends on the dealer.

[chaser]

Yes, I think it depends on dealer. Do some research on mazda forums and you should see which dealers have good feedback. The one I go to has very good service overall.

[articsteve]

What do you mean seized up?  Are you saying that he wore out his rear pads and then wrecked his rotors?

Seized would involve a caliper or seaized parking brake cable.

It is not uncommon for these small cars to go thru rear brakes.  Jettas go thru rear pads like crasy at about 30,000 km city driving tops.

I had a 2002 EL with 29000 km come in and the rears were basically riding on the backing plate.  Didn't wreck the rotor though.

All depends how they set up the porporting systems or in the alternative the rotors on the rear are too small.  This is certainly the case with Jettas.  The rotor and therefore the pad surface are simply undersized.

Your friend should pay more attention to his vehicle and the pad thickness.  You get what you pay for.

He is further making a mistake by going back to the dealer and having the rotors "machined" LOL for 200 bucks.

He should go to Midas and get new rotors and their life time guarantee on the pads.

[quadzilla]

Ok, another P5 owner here and I had this exact same problem but with a much happier ending.  I say it is the dealer that is the problem here.  I switched dealers for servicing around 60,000kms as I had issues with my local dealer and their pricing.  The new dealer told me about this issue before I took my car in for my first servicing there.  After they looked at my car they came out and told me that I needed whole new brakes for the rear.  After picking me up off the floor they also told me that it’s all under warranty, yes the pads, rotors and calipers.  The problem was they are on back order and will be 4-8 weeks.  They suggested I try another dealer to fix it if they had the parts.  I went back to my original dealer and they said no, its not warranty work as you never had the 12,000km brake inspection.  So my new dealer said just wait for the parts and they will replace anything that is destroyed from this.  
I now have 140,000 kms on the P5 and am still on my original brakes!  This is a documented Mazda problem, not only here but also in the USA.  Many people have had this issue, don't let Mazda lie to you.  
All of the good dealers now highly recommend getting the pins greased every year due to the amount of sand and salt on the roads, which is where, the problem comes from.  I have heard of a couple of other manufactures that have the same issue but don't remember their names.
Take the car to another dealer!  Where does your friend live?

[safristi]

1 more and we'll have 5 P'eed P5's..!!!!

[neil]

Arcticsteve, you forgot to conclude your post with a shoulda bought a Honda.  Multipath's experience is in fact typical, on a FWD car the front brakes do 80% of the work, there is no way rears should be gone in 30k.  My wife's Acura also had siezed rear calipers, fact is you couldn't notice because the rears did so little of the braking.  The play in the parking brake cable was the only clue.

[davidm]

Mazda Canada is notoriously bad at customer service.  Good customer services seems to be highly dependant on your dealer.  FYI, mazda rear brakes are very good at seizing (big problem on early Miatas and 90s proteges).

[barrie1]

Over the years I have seen many vehicles with seized rear brakes and usually the main cause of this is NOT useing the emergency brakes at all. The cables and adjustment parts just seize up from not be used at all and then they burn off very quickly. On a lot of the 4 wheel Disc Cars the emergency is the Brake adjustment device and has to be used. Very few owners ever use it at all.

[articsteve]

Ok, so we are now talking about seized sliders.  Well that could be very well a problem on mazda calipers.  Obviously a bad design.  Furthermore, I can see that if Mazda calls for a "brake service" @ 12,000 km and it is not done by the owner then tuff luck.  Although, Mazda should have a sticker on the dash in bright orange that says; "Sliders must be cleaned and lubed every 12,000 km".

Actually, all the asian companies list a break service at 12km, but few really require it, although drums  need a quick inspection often to insure 100% effectiveness.  

So for the life of a Mazda P5 you will need to pull the slider pins every 12Km to avoid problems?  Must have some major heat transfer issues in those brakes.  Every car has it's weak areas

I did at least 80 sets of brakes last year and no seized calipers. Sure, some my not be functioning well because the sliders are so impacted with crud and never been cleaned for 5 years, but I have never had a "seized" caliper.  Lots of seized drums though.

Again, I will warn anyone who owns a small semi-econo cost import that is using rear rotors to check the pad thickness regularily.  I think in a lot of cases when the manufactures dropped the drums for rear disc they purposely transfered more demand on the rears from the fronts which isn't necessarily a bad idea.

Good to see the original Neil is still here.