Topic: Used Land Rovers

[Snowman]

Underground mine can be fairly large. Typically mine access openings are 5.0m wide x 4.65m high. Equipment is getting bigger and bigger. Large openings are also required for ventilation flows. I have work in some mines where there was 500 km of active development openings…..you need a vehicle to get around.

[jeeper]

if u want a Land Rover, why dont u buy the NA Land Rover which is the Grand Cherokee...

you will happier...

[jeeper]

if u want a Land Rover, why dont u buy the NA Land Rover which is the Grand Cherokee...

you will be happier...

[Giant Dwarf]

Oh no... Multi is turning into the Barrie1 of Chrysler products.    A Jeep for every application?  You've been watching that commercial where the GC beats the TT and 325iX on the track, haven't you?

[Mdxtasy]

The Grand Puba rules the Water Buffalo.

[barrie1]

Multi has a point tho as the Jeep is one of the best all round off road vehicles there is.  Certainly a lot cheaper to own then a Land Rover any day of the week.

[ovr50]

I like Jeeps generally and would consider getting one in the right circumstances.

[Mdxtasy]

Who nowaday buys a Land Rover for offroading?  Especially the newer ones?  A small majority of them do but for the most part, it's to show off the LR badge and the 'exclusivity' that it carries or is supposed to carry...the JEEP logo doesn't have the same effect.  The Jeep is capable, but a Subaru can get up a snowy hill just as well.  

[ovr50]

I might argue that one, Mdx. I think the Jeep logo has a pretty strong off-road connection. Just look at the number of magazines devoted to Jeeps and off-roading specifically. The Rubicon Trail thing is huge in the US. And Jeeps (most of them) are very capable off-road. Just don't load it up with luxury stuff and you've got a serious off-roader. Some mods (huge industry for Jeep mods for off-road) make it a serious mudder. Much better than just about every other NA brand. Some stripped Toyotas are capable also, but not considered a NA brand. A Subaru can climb a snowy hill, but no Subaru is a serious off-road machine. Lots of LRs and Jeeps never see off-road but they are capable. Not so your MDX nor my RAV.  

[saint_satan]

It's a remarkable brand image - every Jeep can do the Rubicon Trail - or so the story goes. A lot of Jeep loyalists had a heart attack when the Liberty went to independant front suspension over the Cherokees live axles.  IMO the on-road ride of the Liberty was worth the trade-off for a reduction of the Cherokee off-road prowess.  (The added 800lbs. of the Liberty, however, is inexcusable and makes it worse on gas than the Cherokee with the old tech 4.0L - go figure).

Rumour has it that Jeep will introduce a cute 'ute al la Rav4, CR-V, Forester.  I think it is a great idea but a lot of loyalists think it will water down the brand.   I'd like to see something like the Freelander - off-road capable AWD but without the bulk of traditional SUVs.  We'll see....

[jeeper]

actually Jeff that commercial is kool!

But no...not a Jeep for every application.

And Ovr is right, Jeeps are very popular and capable vehicles...most of them dont see things like the Rubicon Trail but all them are capable to go through it without problems.

I remember seeing a comparative test between the old GC and a Range Rover.....in the end the Quadra Drive made all the difference making the GC a non-stop vehicle and deserving lots and lots of positive reviews.

Maybe a Subaru can go uphill but there're lot of other things that it wont get through....

I would take the risk and will say...for daily driver a Subaru is Ok, but if u really want to be confident that u will get through around, lets say, almost every situation then the Subaru isnt the best option....

(Message edited by multivisao on December 13, 2004)

[ovr50]

Saint-s - the Liberty is already the same size as the RAV, CRV, Forester et al; the problem as you said, is it's weight. The Lib goes about 4000#, my RAV is about 3000#, with the Forester and CRV about 3200#. The Liberty needs to go on a diet; Jeep doesn't need a new "cute ute", they already have one. I don't why the Lib is so heavy? Does anyone have a valid answer for that (not just guesses, but facts)?

[jeeper]

the new suspension system, stiffer chassis and different transmission...

[saint_satan]

www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-history.html

This link is kind of interesting and provides a partial answer.  Jeep loyalists will have a fit when they retire the 4.0L I6.  The 3.7 V6 has already replaced the 4.0L in the '05 Grand Cherokee and the Liberty.  Will the 4.0L be dead in the TJ soon?  One of the few dead-reliable US built engines - it's right up there with the small block chevy V8's for durability.  I personally know 5 people with well over 300,000km (2 are closing on 400,000km) and many more over 250,000 km.  Too bad about the rust-prone bodies. Apparently they moved to galvanized steel in '95 but I still get mine Rust-checked every year.

[Giant Dwarf]

Just takin' a light-hearted poke at you and Barrie, Multi.  The only Jeep I've driven was a Liberty and it was on the off-road track at the gold medal tour thing this past summer.  I was awe-struck by its capabilities on that very easy, mickey-mouse course having never driven off-road before.

I put stock in Jeep's marketing claim of their products being "trail rated".  A sissy-ute would only do harm to the brand.  Keep the Jeeps manly and capable -- every one of them.  Make the cute-ute a Dodge or Chrysler.

[barrie1]

My one son-in-law has a 2002 TJ he bought after the 2003's came out. Got a better deal but I have driven this Vehicle and found it be a great toy for the money. His is a 5spd and has the leather and air package with the optional hardtop and canvas. Lots of power with the 4l engine and handled extremely well for its weight and size. I am very impressed with the Jeep line-up. Did you know that a lot of the racing Jeeps use the old Buick engines or the deadly small block Chevie as well.

[Mdxtasy]

I don't dispute the Jeep capability for one second.  

Like I said...the majority of owners who purchase a Land Rover or Range Rover or Cayenne or LX470 or whatever luxury SUV out there is not going to be putting it through it's paces on the Rubicon Trail.  For that matter, I would also go as far as saying that the Grand Cherokee and Liberty's that are purchased see about as much off roading as my MDX does.  These 'offroaders' stay onroad most of their lives and for that, I would say that their superior 4wd system and ground clearance and low range gearing is a waste of technology for their owners.  It'll never be used and what they are faced with, a snowy hilly street or 6 inches of snow can be tacked with a CRV, Forester, or heck, a Civic could get through it.  So with that said, I would say that an SUV geared for onroad comfort will win in the eyes of consumers in most situations.  Lexus sells a ton of their SUV's.  They are comfortable and stylish and have the right logo.  Their owners could give a rat's ass about how it's rock crawling capabilities are.  

Sure the CJ and Defender are great offroaders, but they really are purpose built for that.  I would guess that 90% of the sport utes out there are sold not on their capability, but by their luxury items and how many oohs and ahhs they can get.  

So in summary, what I am saying is that you can't say a Jeep can take the place of a Land/Range Rover.  For the consumers nowadays, they just aren't comprarable.  Sure they both are capable offroad, but they aren't in the same class.  The Jeep name holds nothing in the face of brand name imagery.    

[saint_satan]

MDX:

You're mostly right; still I think the Jeep used to have tremendous cache as a yuppie mobile before there was anything else.  I still think you'll find lots of Grand Cherokees in driveways in Rosedale, Mount Royal and North Vancouver.

I will also agree that the so called cute 'utes are a better purchase for 100% of the driving population who live in an urban area.  I have owned both an '01 CR-V and (currently own) an '01 Cherokee.  For on-road use, snow packed roads and long trips the CR-V was infinitely better.  Better riding, better fuel economy, likely more reliable in the long run.  The CR-Vs Real Time 4WD and 8" of clearance was more than enough to get me home or to the cottage in the worst snow storms.

The Jeep offers tons of power, decent capability for towing and off-road and, once the Cherokee was discontinued, a used vehicle value that is impossible to beat.  The serious drawbacks are its Panzer-like on-road ride and fairly high fuel consumption for a small vehicle (11l/100km on highway/summer and 15l/100km in town/winter).  I suspect that most people couldn’t stand the road/gear/engine noise that invades the cabin of a TJ or XJ.  This is where the improvements made by the Liberty really shine.

For me, it was a question of value when purchase used.  The Jeep was about 40% less expensive.  With a father in the business who has sold a number of long lasting 4.0L, I took the plunge.  Would I buy one new?  Tough to say – I absolutely love the Liberty but until they improve the fuel economy, I think it will stay off my list.  Despite all of the B.S. over so-called "incentivesâ€?, Liberty’s have seen a price creep of about 5%/year since the model launch in 2002.   I will probably keep the Cherokee for a while and in the next few years buy a 4cyl. cute ‘ute and keep the XJ as a weekend warrior vehicle.