Timing belt replacement

[safristi]

Probably the "NYLON??" teeth were to soften the lovely mechanical sound of a timimg chain lashing about...it's funny we want out cars to be as quiet as a hearse ,yet our surroundings and
extra "chatter" in the car (phones/Phat boxes/500Watt BASS amps) grows ever louder...bring back the chains OLeg...slurp..slurp..YES ...Master...!!!!Leave the plastics fer the dash..make the engine from solid metals and a few ceramics....Nice Pot dear...did you throw it yourself???...well ya missed....

[articsteve]

I believe GM started the nylon timing wheel gear insanity.

I had the pleasure of replacing one on a 3.8 V6 on a 83 Buick Regal rear driver.

Absolutely bullet proof motor except for this crazy idea of a completely nylon timing gear sprocket. I guess you would call it that.  At about 200,000 km guaranteed to slip the chain.  No valve damage results.  Millions of these motors on the road at that time.  Think of all the money lost, wasted and ripped off people by evil repair shops.

This POS "GM innovation" marked the beginning of  GM demise, along with front wheel drive 98s(LOL) and front wheel drive Cadillacs (louder LOL)

[articsteve]

I believe GM started the nylon timing wheel gear insanity.

I had the pleasure of replacing one on a 3.8 V6 on a 83 Buick Regal rear driver.

Absolutely bullet proof motor except for this crazy idea of a completely nylon timing gear sprocket. I guess you would call it that.  At about 200,000 km guaranteed to slip the chain.  No valve damage results.  Millions of these motors on the road at that time.  Think of all the money lost, wasted and ripped off people by evil repair shops.

This POS "GM innovation" marked the beginning of  GM demise, along with front wheel drive 98s(LOL) and front wheel drive Cadillacs (louder LOL)

[barrie1]

Sorry Artic but Ford was useing them long before on the V8 engine to save weight and quiet down the drivetrains. They called it new and improved for about 75,000 miles. The Nylon gears just wore off, This engine precedes the use of the 3.8's production by a about 4 years. The 1st 3.8 was in the 1976 Buick Grand National. The legend was born with a 6cylinder car. 12.5 secs in the 1/4 mile factory equipped. You had to like Black tho as it only the one colour. Instead we bought the regal about $6000.00 less with the same engine and toys. Any colour we wanted. Great engine with around 200,Million served.

[Sterling]

So, Barrie, you are telling us about problems with engines from 1972? Or are you claiming these problems exist now? Which Ford V8's exactly are you referring to?

[barrie1]

The older small block Ford V8's, the 289 and 302's were both bad for them as well as the 1st 351's and 352's ,360's,. I am sure the newer ones of the last 10 years are back to steel.

[articsteve]

Ok, this is the Christmas season and it is not uncommon for some of us to have a few on a Saturday night.

That been said, my 88 Town Car with the piston slapping 302 had normal metal chain sprockets.

I'm thinking this is something GM would do first because the early 80's was when Roger Smith took control of GM and ran it into the ground which it really never recovered from.  R.I.P.

[barrie1]

To-night I have had nothing but pop as I am Dand D to-night. Have to take some guests home soon. The lincolns may have been different but Ford did it 1st. Roger Rabbit was an idiot and is still in hiding THE SON OF A B--TCH. A Greedy Stupid Pig who only cared for himself. Came close for them but they are still here and still the world's largest.

[johngenx]

Mercedes has never built an engine with a timing belt.  However, that does not mean that they haven't had a catastrophic failure due to a chain failure.  The M116 4.2L V-8 engine has a very long chain that changes direction many times.  Add plastic guides that grew brittle with age, and you have an engine that requires some monitoring of it's chain and occasional replacment of the upper guides.

Chains will stretch with age, but the beauty is that it's easy to check the timing change and see how much the chain has worn.

Many timing chains live in the engine oil, and they require attention to oil quality and quantity to ensure long life.

The positives are that chains rarely fail in the spectacular fashion belts do, and mostly live much, much, longer than belts.  Also, I cannot say for other engines, but on MB models, chain replacement is not much more expensive than belt replacement on other makes.  The M111 engine in my C230 seems to require a chain replacement at around 400,000kms (based on other owner experiences) and it's about $450 parts and labour at a dealer.  While that is a bit more than the $250-$350 many other four cylinder cars cost, it lasts 2-4 times longer.

I wish our Subie engine had chains, but at 160,000km intervals and about $350, it's not bad for a belt driven engine.

[amhutap]

Johngenx,

$350 for a subaru Timing belt change? Do you skip the water pump or change it yourself? Or you know th guy who knows the guy? :-)

Dealer estimates 550-600 with w-pump. Did not inlude seals, thermostat and such, they did not mention any such at least.

(Message edited by amhutap on December 19, 2004)

[mas98]

Recently Got a 98 Civic, with 120K on it from a dealer. How should one know whether the timing belt was changed at 100K?
What are the symptoms of timing belt wear? (like: replace your timing belt tomorrow or be stranded in  417 in a cold winter night and have fun)
The issue of replacing engine because of Timing belt has made me worried, to say the least.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

I think there's little warning.
When they expire, they expire - It'll just snap.  
Then if you have an interference type engine - and many are - you're in for some SERIOUS repairs.

Where did you get the car from? If the previous owner serviced it there, they should be able to look into the service records of the car and tell you. Not sure if a mechanic would be able to tell by looking. Possibly, but doubt it.

Do commend GM and select other manufacturers for including a timing chain. This saves owners a bundle of cash and should be a buying consideration when shopping around.

[articsteve]

What kind of dealer?

Find out which Honda dealer the car was originally sold from and contact them an maybe with a little luck they will have a service record of some sort.

Other than that, buy the 20 buck previous owner package from the Ontario government and maybe the last owner has a really unusual name and is in the phone book.  Or the last known owner was a local known car reseller and they might give you a name.

Generally, folks know that belt needs to be done and decide to trade, but you never know.

You could look for marks on the bolts that hold the timing case cover on. You can examine the bolts that hold the tensioner.

I hate belts.

[johngenx]

My indie charges a flat $350 P/L for timing belts on the 2.5L without coolant pump.

[Mdxtasy]

Speaking of which...I found an SVX that was on the market in Calgary.  Red 94.  Called them about it and was told while the manager was tooling around in it, the belt snapped and they ended up selling it for $2700.  Probably could have put in a Subie H6 engine in it for 3K.  Missed it by 1 week.