Hot off the CBC Website, GM Plant in Ste Therese to be sold.

[maritime_storm]

Here's the link for anyone interested.

http://montreal.cbc.ca/regionalnews/caches/qc-gm20041130.html

Camaro & Firebird officially dead? You decide.

[barrie1]

Well its certainly over for that factory. I would like one or both built again in another plant. The Mustange needs the competition which would help them stay on their toes as well. Be good for all the buyers of these cars.

[ovr50]

The GM F-bodies would be built at a different plant, likely state-side, should they be resurrected. I hope at least one of them comes back but I think it is at best a 50-50 shot. Hate to think the Camaro is gone for good. It would be great for GM also in that new traffic would re-appear in their showrooms. A friend of mine who has sold for one of the local Ford shops here says the new Mustang has created more traffic than he has seen in the 8 years he has sold Fords. There's a "buzz" again!!

[Snowman]

He Camaro and Firebird names are dead…..well until 2017 anyways. From a legal perspective any future car that carried the name Camaro or Firebird would have to be made at the Ste. Therese plant. 2017 is the year all Canadian government loans are to be repaid. GM has a gag order out on any reference to the Camaro or Firebird before the disposal, sale, and demolition of the plant.  

GM always had issues with the plat as it was the most underutilized plant in North America. The plant was a loser, and to top things off, had a bi-lingual workforce which was harder to train, long supply lines, even longer shipping distances for finished cars, and marginal on-site storage for materials and partially finished vehicles. The plant had a capacity of 200 units and GM had a hard time making 100,000…..it had to go

Gm is working on a “sportyâ€? car that will have a 5.3-liter V-8 engine, rear-wheel drive, and four-passenger capacity. This is currently under developed by Holden, GM's Australian division. The  "Zeta" chassis will be assembled in GM's Hamtramck, Michigan plant, which will soon be phasing out Cadillac Deville, Seville and Buick LeSabre. Only time and legal issues with the CAW and the Canadain/Quebec governments will sort out the name.

[jeeper]

Snowy it makes a lot of sense...
Quebec wants to be different from the rest of north america and still teaches French as primary language...they should realize that we have ppl speaking english all around the border and french will be useless over there....time to change their minds?

[Shnak]

common Multi... that's a stupid comment. Why ditch french completely? French is Quebec first language, that's fine. The problem is that the Quebec public school system doesn't even teach english before they're like in 10 or 11th grade.

And Snowman, I'm not sure how having a bi-lingual workforce is harder to train... all you need it instructors that are also bi-lingual. Doesn't seem like a problem to me.

[Snowman]

I have worked in many Bi-lingual workplaces in Ontario and New Brunswick, Communication is always a problem as it is difficult to train everybody to the same level.

GM stated this as a problem and I’m sure the cost is high to maintain this program.

[ovr50]

Snowy - your info on this seems knowledgible and current. Thanks. What's to stop GM from paying off the loans early and thus freeing them of the name restriction (I was not aware GM had done that - a fairly restrictive step for GM). Then GM could produce the "new" F-bodies in the US, right? GM has to be envious these days of the new traffic in Ford showrooms.

[jeeper]

Shnak if u think its a stupid comment, than thats you...but i think u should at least respect it!

GM and some other companies around here dont think that way and they are making english a mandatory language for hiring (french is an asset).

French in the rest of Canada seems to be disappearing and I dont think it will last for longer here in Quebec either...

[mrthompson]

As Multi stated, it must be more and more difficult to be french in a sea of english.  To paraphrase the Borg, "Resistance is futile; assimilate or be destroyed!"

[Shnak]

Well I said it was a stupid comment because I think it's borderline racist. "ahhhh I don't like french, so they should be like me and speak english!" Common... everyone knows that Quebec is trying the best it can to protect its french language. Why do you even look suprised when you say that Quebec "still" teaches french as its primary language. That's like asking why is Ontario teaching english as its primary language, only 95% of its population speaks it! Same logic in Quebec.

Anyways, I don't want to defend the Quebec province in any way... I just thought it was a bit unsensitive from your part, that's all.

I don't think French is disappearing in the rest of Canada. Ottawa is becoming more and more bilingual by the day. They're passing laws so that employees of the city must be bilingual to even work there. Same thing with important jobs in the federal government.

Oh course english should be mandatory to work with GM, I'm not disputing that. If they accepted workers that didn't speak a hint of english for their plant in Ste-Therese, it's their problem. They shouldn't come back later and whine that it costs more to instruct them in both languages. Common.

Anyways. One less company present around Montreal. Losing headquarters every day to Toronto... Lost the Expos, probably will lose the Canadiens within 10-15 years. Montreal needs to shake things up and make it more interesting for companies to establishes themselves there and not make the "French first" mentality a barrier.

[mrthompson]

I don't think anyone has said "ahhhh I don't like french, so they should be like me and speak english".  At least not in those exact words.

"Well I said it was a stupid comment because I think it's borderline racist."

Let's not go there.

Shall we agree that GM (and other large US-based corporations) need to be sensitive to the french language aspect of Quebec, and Quebec should be more accepting of anglophone/bilingual groups?}

[jeeper]

it wasnt borderline racism...but i will stop here before i start a war with Shnak...

where are you Barrie?  

[h20ski]

I personally like having both English & French...  
From working in the Post Production Industry it works well.
In case for example GM of Canada were you have say a competitive comparison video for Chevy Silverado.  
This one project is actually 4 because you do English & French versions for Chevy then turn around & do GM's English & French versioning.  
I also work with a US Production Company that we share projects on as I have to do French versioning up here & he does Spanish...plus since they still use imperial vs metric - we have to change that.  
I'm not saying it's not costly, it is but allot of peolpe do benefit from it.

[Drivesideways]

At the risk of diving into langauge politics, I'll weigh in...

From GM's perspective maintaining a bilingual workforce is absolutely a cost pressure they don't face in Ontario or the States.  However they and other manufacturers are in many situations where they are operating in locations where the mother tongue is different from that of the company.  Heck, DC must deal with that at the boardroom level.  But in most of those situations there is probably an offsetting factor like a access to cheaper labour pool, avoiding tariffs, getting government tax breaks, having shorter supply lines.  In the absence of any of these there would be a powerful incentive for GM to move just down the road to avoid the situation altogether.

Besides, I'm sure this isn't the most important factor in the decision.  It is most likely outweighed by any or all of the other ones Snowy mentioned.

[h20ski]

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/french.wav

[lsmeteor]

Well I drive by what used to be the plant everyday and the whole area has been turned into piles of rubble and dust.
From what I understood from a former GM worker, the company that understook the demolition of the plant did it for free. They will get revenues from selling the machines, metal and other parts they could salvage. (That remains to be checked though.)
The condition that Cherokee bought the land was that the plant was to be removed so they can rebuild on it.

[barrie1]

Most of the Ottawa Vally is English speaking Citizens of Quebec and the Native People claim ownership of 3/5 of the province as well. The main problem at St. Therese  was the inability of the people to work to-gether on the line or office. They had over 5000 grievences a month on average there for years and the Company told them to straighten up or else. They didn't so they lost it. Both sides of the language debate there would not give in. It got so bad that there was deliberate sabatoge to blame each other.  

[Shnak]

Proof that french isn't disapearing in Ottawa:  
http://ottawa.ca/city_services/maps/atlas/2001Census/Immigration/IMMIGRATION_e_f iles/image026.jpg

In fact, it's the opposite.

1996/2001:  
77%/64% English
11%/15% French
9%/19% Non-official languages
3%/2% Multiple responses

If you include the Quebec side of the capital region, I'd guess about 30-35% of the total population around Ottawa is French.

Another interesting point:
In both years, 61% of the population reported that they spoke English only, 37% both spoke both English and French, 1 percent French only, and 1 percent had no knowledge of either official language.

Anyways, just to point out that French isn't going anywhere, thanks in part to the Quebec laws in place.

As for the GM plant in Ste Thérèse, well too bad for the workers there. They got what they deserve, and nobody can blame that decision on GM.

[evil_twin]

I know this isn't even remotely related to cars...BUT...as a diehard sports fan I just have to comment:

Shnak wrote: "Lost the Expos, probably will lose the Canadiens within 10-15 years."

Are you kidding me?? There is NO WAY (ie. 0% chance) that Montreal is gonna lose the Canadiens in the next 10-15 years (unless of course, the entire NHL folds...but that's another story.) That team has an unbelievably strong following and has for about a century. You can't even compare them to the Expos.  

Of course, they may never again compete at the same level as my beloved Maple Leafs ...but they will NEVER leave Montreal....EVER.