Anti-Lock Brakes should be standard equipment on all vehicles so...

[duck]

This  dumbass  government should force auto-makers to have ABS as  standard equipment on all  vehicles sold in Canada.

[ovr50]

Disagree - 1. we have enough laws regulating content already, 2. ABS brakes NOT always desirable (eg. some country, gravel and off-road situations), 3. every time something is mandated, prices go up, 4. ABS does not help in snow or icey roads or at best, only marginally.

[barrie1]

Good point Duck. If it helps save lives then it should be standard equipment, I think Heated outside Mirrors should be standard as well.

[triple_b]

Hell no!  The government is way too involved in regulating things as it is.  Why force ABS on those that don't need/want it or can't afford it?

Just because you think ABS is a must have, doesn't mean that everyone should be forced by law to have it.  If we go too far down that road, we'll have cars so full of content by law that nobody could afford them.  Do you really need the government to tell you what to do all the time?

[maritime_storm]

A non-ABS car actually stops shorter than a car equipped with ABS, old news. 4 wheel lockup stops shorter, what it doesn't do is allow you to steer. For this reason I won't buy a car with ABS, people are more likely to slam on the brakes and forget to steer in an emergency, myself included, found that out in 2002. Not mention ABS equipped cars require the owner to bleed the brakes every year to keep the system being damaged by water in the fluid.

[jeeper]

Hey Maritime from which place did u get that information??

Cars eqquiped with ABS will ALWAYS stop in a shorter distance than any non-ABS cars, besides keeping it under total control!!!

[Snowman]

This has been debated to death. I will always drive a car with an ABS system……my brain works fine and I steer properly while corning or in avoidance maneuvering.
As Neil would say…..where is the data to back up the statements…or STFU, or something like that?

[Shnak]

All I know is that I will never drive another non-ABS car, ever! My '91 Passat didn't have ABS and it nearly caused me an accident. Driving down a hill with a stop at the bottom... road was pretty much ice. I was driving really slow, letting the engine compression limit my speed. I started braking a long time before the stop, but my wheels locked up anyways. My car wasn't slowing down at all!!! I had to release the brakes, and aim for a snow bank or else I would've hit the car waiting in line at the intersection. I was lucky that I didn't hit anyone, and that my car wasn't damaged. I'll always remember that moment when purchasing a new car, and will make sure ABS comes with the car.

But I still don't think it should be mandatory because all companies will do then is put cheap systems that don't work well at all... like when GM decided to put ABS on all of their vehicles... the ABS system on the Cavalier and Sunfire was so terrible that I'm pretty sure it was even worse than not having any ABS at all... Eventually, GM decided to change their policy and make people pay extra for a better ABS system.  

All that to say that I don't think it's a good idea to make ABS mandatory, but that I'll never buy a car without it!

[Turbo Bob]

ABS is a pain in the *ss in snow, I find it pretty useless on ice too.  Although, when trained to use it (i.e. you know what it's going to do) it works very well.

A "normal" driver will stop quicker with ABS, but only if they have experienced it before. This is because many drivers, the first time they are about to crash, feel the ABS kick in and take their foot of the brake pedal, 'cos it's vibrating! Once they know to press as hard as possible regardles of the feel/noise, they can stop very quickly.

I have seen the actual road testing showing how when you switch the ABS off, you can stop quicker, especially on a dry road.  But again you must know what you're doing.

Therefore ABS works well for the majority of people the majority of the time, familiarisation should be part of the driving test.

[quadzilla]

I think some people are still under the impression that ABS will stop them quicker/shorter than non-ABS cars.  Isn't it still about the amount of grip your tires have?  The more grip the less the ABS will be used?  
So the more worn/crappy the tire or water/snow/ice on the road the more the ABS will activate.
I know my ABS hardly ever comes on, even during panic stops sans ice of course.

[Snowman]

*clap,clap,clap*

[mrthompson]

They have treatments that will cure that now, Snowy!  

And a 5 for Quadzilla.

[safristi]

Just back from the Dr.?...

Buffalo gals won't ya come out tonite..come out tonite...!!!!!!

(Message edited by safristi on December 01, 2004)

[neil]

Yes yes yes, and no.

This has been debated here before.  
My take?  MFGR's should be mandated only to provide ABS as a stand alone option.  My '02 Elantra GT (and all Elantra's in 02) was only available with ABS in the Premium package.  It was a $2000 upgrade with Leather Seats, Sunroof and TC.  My car has ABS not because I wanted it, but the sunroof and leather actually, (the system is excellent in my car BTW) but some people like you above demand ABS and you should have the choice regardless of which model you want.
Like Shnak, my fear is that if systems are mandated the mfgr's will provide the lowest cost system, and not the best system.  GM used ABS as a marketing tool in the 90's, saying "wow look at us, all our cars have ABS" but the 2 channel system in most of the cars was horrible.

Ultimately consumer demand will make the call.  It is encouraging to see my company provide ABS as standard equipment on the Tucson, and a system that is very state of the art. (see Tucson thread)  You can rest assured they aren't doing it to be good corporate citizens, but because the small SUV market demands it, and it will sell more units.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Non-ABS would probably stop you quicker in dry roads.

I prefer and want ABS on my vehicles. It rarely kicks in - only when necessary - and allows you the control to steer around objects. I find it a very worthwhile safety feature.  

Don't think it should be mandated, but manufacturers with the systems on benefit from customers demanding it.  

My biggest beef is with traction control systems that immobilize you in snow and ice. Thank goodness you can turn these puppies off because they are useless from a standstill!

[Shnak]

Good point Neil. ABS shouldn't be mandatory for manufacturers... but it should always be available as an option!!

Like you said about the Elantra, one of the reasons I ended up walking away from the Hyundai dealership is because the Elantra GT didn't have ABS available, even as an option. I needed to go with the premium package, and I didn't want that since with the sunroof, it really was a tight fit for me.

[Mdxtasy]

Traction control is a real benefit here in the prairies.  With freezing rain and packed snow.  The hills in Calgary can be extremely tricky.  TC allows one to accelerate up the hill and control wheelspin.  I don't think it immobolizes you at all.  I would say the opposite, spinning your wheels without TC will get you nowhere fast.

[sirAQUAMAN64]

Driving many Lexus RWD vehicles (IS, GS, LS) in the snow, I beg to differ. Even with snows. If on a 5degree incline from standstill, the car will not move. Not even budge. It just makes this whiney-mechanical sound and the light on the dash flashes and bells and whistles sound. Flick the switch to turn the sucker off and sure you slide a bit and take off slow, but at least you're moving.

I think the 4WD/AWD system and ABS and DSC have great benefits. I think those are more reponsible for your traction benefits on your MDX than 'traction control' are. Of course, depends on the vehicle and application. I think it might work much more effectively on a FWD car than a RWD car, and would be better at maintaining control once at speed.

[S60]

On high-traction surfaces such as bitumen, whether wet or dry, most ABS-equipped cars are able to attain braking distances better (i.e. shorter) than those that would be possible without the benefit of ABS. A moderately-skilled driver without ABS might be able, through the use of cadence-braking, to match the performance of a novice driver with an ABS-equipped vehicle. However, for a significant number of drivers, ABS will improve their braking distances in a wide variety of conditions. The recommended technique for non-expert drivers in an ABS-equipped car, in a typical full-braking emergency, is to press the brake pedal as firmly as possible and, where appropriate, to steer around obstructions. In such situations, ABS will significantly reduce the chances of a skid and subsequent loss of control—particularly with heavy vehicles.

In gravel and snow, ABS tends to increase braking distances. On these surfaces, locked wheels dig in and stop the vehicle more quickly. ABS prevents this from occurring. Some ABS controllers reduce this problem by slowing the cycling time, thus letting the wheels repeatedly, briefly, to lock and then unlock again. The primary benefit of ABS on such surfaces is to increase the ability of the driver to maintain control of the car rather than go into a skid—though loss of control remains more likely on soft surfaces like gravel or slippery surfaces like snow or ice.

When activated, the ABS causes the brake pedal to pulse significantly. As most drivers rarely or never brake hard enough to cause brake lockup, and a significant number rarely bother to read the car's manual, this may not be discovered until an emergency. When drivers do encounter an emergency that causes them to brake hard and thus encounter this pulsing for the first time, many are believed to reduce pedal pressure and thus lengthen braking distances, contributing to a higher level of accidents than the superior emergency stopping capabilities of ABS would otherwise promise. Some manufacturers have therefore implemented "brake assist" systems that determine the driver is attempting a crash stop and maintain braking force in this situation.

It is worth noting that the heavier a vehicle is, the more it will benefit from ABS. This is particularly true of vehicles with less-sophisticated hydraulic braking systems where fine control is not as easy as with the more developed braking systems. Conversely, lighter vehicles, especially sports cars with highly-developed braking systems without ABS can outbrake comparable vehicles even with ABS.

[neil]

Siraquaman64, statistics show that an ABS car will stop quicker on dry roads than a non-ABS car.  Also quicker on wet pavement and ice.

Where ABS is less effective is on snow and loose gravel.  The plowing action of a locked wheel apparently assists in braking in these surfaces.

If I have time I'll try and find some links.