Author Topic: Shopping time!!  (Read 5721 times)

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« on: November 05, 2004, 03:00:59 pm »
It’s time to replace the ol’ G20 after 13 ½ years of faithful service.  We finally set foot in a few dealerships this week as we get more serious about this.  This car will be the primary family duty vehicle that my wife will drive most of the time.  It will see DSW clone distribution duty; household consumable and non-consumable goods reconnaissance duty, long-suffering DSW copilot escape route duty, and possibly Griswald-esque road trip duty (depending on GTI replacement in June). She’d prefer to have a manual transmission (ain’t she sweet?).  We’re trying to keep the cost in the high 20s low 30s range.  Also on the wish list: heated seats (it gets frickin’ cold here!) and leather (we find it easier to keep looking clean than cloth – I think we’re willing to pony up a bit of extra dough for it).

Here’s the progress so far:

Hyundai – I did a solo fly-by of the Tuscon at a neighboring dealership while I was waiting for the V-dub to have an oil change.  I didn’t take it for a spin, but I poked around it for a bit.  It was fairly impressive room- and feature-wise and I like it’s stance better than the competing X-Trail.  Seems like good value for the dollar, especially when you factor in the warranty.  We’ll take a closer look at it later.

Subaru – We both looked at, but didn’t drive, the 2005 Forester, Impreza, and Legacy Outback.  She liked the Impreza RS and might be interested in taking one for a spin.   She likes the Outbacks too, but they’re out of the price range by quite a bit.  I’m leaving the Legacy GT (wagon or sedan depending on what transpires now) on my list for later.

Mazda – Looked at the wagon and hatchback of variants of the Mazda6 as well as the MPV.  Not that we are shopping for a minivan, but it was in the showroom and she does sometimes drop serious hints about wanting 7-passenger seating. We took a 6 sedan for a spin.  I really like the interior layout of the 6.  The quality of some of the materials isn’t what I’ve been used to in the GTI, but was certainly acceptable.  The wagon has a nifty way to release the rear seatbacks to fold them flat while standing at the rear hatch.  It was easy for us both to find a comfortable driving position with the tilt-telescoping wheel and height adjustable drivers seat.  The rear seat had oodles of leg room even with the front seats quite far back.  No center head rest for the rear seat, though.  That’s a small deduction in our books.  The driving impression was very good although I didn’t get an opportunity to really press it.  It didn’t have quite the sprightly feel I’m used to with the GTI, but it was probably just as quick.  I found the shifter didn’t fall quite as easily to hand as I would like.  It seemed to be positioned a little too far back.  But again, that’s something I (or she…ahem) could probably adjust to.

Up next….

Nissan – We’ll look at the Altima and the X-Trail (probably the Quest, too).  And we’ll revisit Subaru and Hyundai.

For some strange reason, neither of us have considered Honda or Toyota.  I’m not really sure why.  From a due diligence point of view, we should probably pay them a visit as well.  I also think we should look at the Mailibu Maxx, but that might be a harder sell at home.

It’s a strange cross-shopping list, I know, but it’s been a while since we’ve both done this seriously and the market has changed a lot in 14 years.


I'll keep you posted.  Thoughts, advice, ridicule, abuse, etc. are welcome.
"PC Load Letter...what the f_ck does that mean?"

Offline wing

  • Big Wig
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Location: Ottawa, On, Canada
  • Posts: 18103
  • Carma: +101/-61
  • Gender: Male
  • If you ain't first ... you're last!
    • View Profile
    • Drivesideways
  • Cars: 2001 Honda S2000; 2005 Nissan Titan
Shopping time!!
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2004, 03:20:11 pm »
If you want manual, I believe you will have to skip Toyota and except for a small car you will have to skip honda as well.

I didn't read everything but you want a wagon / small SUV right?


Mdxtasy

  • Guest
Shopping time!!
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2004, 03:23:35 pm »
That's a pretty competitive market you got going there DSW.  Question 1…is that price range tax in or plus tax?

The Accord is good family hauler.  Good power, well built, good handling.
Camry?  Not for me but it’s a good car.
How about Mitsubishi?  Don’t forget them….they’ve got a great warranty now.  The Galant is supposed to be pretty decent.
VW Passat?
Ford 500?

Offline Shnak

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Hull
  • Posts: 7350
  • Carma: +1/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • New toy! :)
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2010 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 2006 Kia Sportage
Shopping time!!
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2004, 03:26:41 pm »
How about a Jetta Wagon TDI? That certainly would be worth taking a look into, especially since you seem to enjoy your GTI so much. But yeah, Mazda6 hatch/wagon are tough to beat in this particular price range, especially with the financing deals available right now... I'd personally stick with the 4 cylinder though...

Too bad Honda or Toyota don't offer anything to counter the Mazda6 Hatch and Wagon models... Or if you don't really need hatch/wagon, I would at the very least take an Accord out for a test drive... lots of car for the money!

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2004, 03:31:28 pm »
Yeah James, I kinda thought the manual would take Honda and Toyota out of the picture, but it doesn't seem right to skip them entirely.  Other factors might outweigh that particular requirement.  We'll see.

Wagon/small SUV?  My preference would be for a wagon, but she's also been eyeing up the X-Trail.  I added the Tuscon to the list to comppare and contrast.  When we looked at the Mazda6, she prefered the hatchback to the wagon or Sedan.  That would be ok, too.  The Altima would be acceptable too, even though it's neither.  That would mean I might consider an A4 Avant, Legacy GT, or Magnum in the spring.

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 03:36:05 pm »
Shnak, I've looked at the Jetta wagon in the past and I think it would be too small for the family where the boys are going to be heading into serious teenage time here pretty soon.  The GTI almost seemed to have more rear legroom than the Jetta wagon.  That had to be an optical illusion though.  It's ok for occasional family duty, but we need something a little bigger, I think and the Jetta wagon isn't enough bigger.  The Passat wagon might be worth considering, but I find the styling a bit "Magoo".

Offline wing

  • Big Wig
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Location: Ottawa, On, Canada
  • Posts: 18103
  • Carma: +101/-61
  • Gender: Male
  • If you ain't first ... you're last!
    • View Profile
    • Drivesideways
  • Cars: 2001 Honda S2000; 2005 Nissan Titan
Shopping time!!
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2004, 03:38:34 pm »
Civic SIR hatch :-)

Actually you know, Canada blows in the hatch back market, the UK has SOOO many good choices it really pains me.


Offline wing

  • Big Wig
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Location: Ottawa, On, Canada
  • Posts: 18103
  • Carma: +101/-61
  • Gender: Male
  • If you ain't first ... you're last!
    • View Profile
    • Drivesideways
  • Cars: 2001 Honda S2000; 2005 Nissan Titan
Shopping time!!
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2004, 03:39:10 pm »
What about the new 1 series or A3? Not sure how long before they release though.

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2004, 03:41:33 pm »
Very funny, re the SiR.

I agree with you, though James.  The hatchback is a good configuration in my view, but for somereason NA has turned away from them.  Especially in the mid-size market.

The 1 series and A3 are too far away.  But I was thinking about an A3 as a contender to replace the GTI in June if it's out by then.  I can't remember the expected to-market time for it.


(Message edited by drivesideways on November 05, 2004)

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2004, 03:50:12 pm »
Sorry MD..I almost missed your suggestions.  It's hard to turn my nose up at the Accord, but I'm really not crazy about the new one.  Ditto with the Camry.  Besides, I just don't like seeing twins of my car everywhere.  Mitsubishi is a good suggestion, though.  And I'll have to take a look at the Ford 500 to see where it sits price-wise.  Actually, I thought about the Freestyle, but I think it creeps up in price by the time a few creature comforts are added.  I'll have a closer look, though.

I'd like that price range to be a "tax-in" number, but I just know it'll end up being a "plus tax" number.  That happens to me every time.

Offline wing

  • Big Wig
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Location: Ottawa, On, Canada
  • Posts: 18103
  • Carma: +101/-61
  • Gender: Male
  • If you ain't first ... you're last!
    • View Profile
    • Drivesideways
  • Cars: 2001 Honda S2000; 2005 Nissan Titan
Shopping time!!
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2004, 03:57:40 pm »
Does a Magnum fit into that range on the low end?

Offline Shnak

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Hull
  • Posts: 7350
  • Carma: +1/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • New toy! :)
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2010 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 2006 Kia Sportage
Shopping time!!
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2004, 04:10:16 pm »
Yeah I thought you'd say that about the Jetta Wagon. I too find the Jetta quasi-useless for its rear seats... terribly small.

Accord 4-cyl 5spd, Mazda6 Hatch 4 cylinder 5spd. Those are my suggestions.

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2004, 04:24:42 pm »
That's for me for spring '05, James.  Different rules.  I don't want to get a 6 cyl Magnum, if it takes an RT out of the running for me in the spring.  Besides, I don't think it's her style.

(Message edited by drivesideways on November 05, 2004)

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2004, 04:27:07 pm »
Thanks for the suggestions, Shnak.

Mdxtasy

  • Guest
Shopping time!!
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2004, 04:47:04 pm »
Honda Element.
Toyota Matrix
Pontiac Vibe

Offline ktm525

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: against the eastern side of the rocks
  • Posts: 4964
  • Carma: +5/-0
  • Just walk away!
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2004, 04:51:42 pm »
What does "Magoo" styling mean? Like it was designed by a Magoo or only appreciated by a Magoo? I find it hard to believe that you have no issues with the Jetta wagon styling  but dislike the Passat? To me these cars are very similar visually. Anyhow my suggestion would be a Passat Wagon 1.8 Turbo mated to the 5 speed, leather package with the heated seats.  This thing will outhandle most of the cars on your list although in a curious "Volvo" type of way. Lots of bodyroll but at the end of the day the thing sticks quite good. You have to at least give one a try.

Offline Shnak

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Location: Hull
  • Posts: 7350
  • Carma: +1/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • New toy! :)
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2010 Hyundai Sonata Limited, 2006 Kia Sportage
Shopping time!!
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2004, 04:54:33 pm »
How can the Passat look like the Jetta Wagon? One is a very rounded appearance, and the other is virtually a box.

IMHO, in terms of looks:
Passat >>> Golf >>>>>>> Jetta

Offline awdriver

  • Learner's Permit
  • *
  • Posts: 55
  • Carma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2004, 05:00:28 pm »
By looking at your list - I'll bet you'll find the Mazda 6 hard to beat with their current promotions.  Although they are a little reluctant to offer much off MSRP.

My only complaint about the 5sp hatch was the annoyingly notchy shift - and hard downshifts into 2nd and 1st.  I tried several so it didn't seem to be a problem with a specific vehicle.  I suspect they loosen up though.

Mazda is currently on my own "finalist list" with Subaru and VW.  Too bad I can't put the Subie AWD and the VW TDI in a Mazda 6 - that'd be my car :-)
Current: 2011 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T; 2010 VW Tiguan Premium
Past: '08 A3 2.0T, '06 Jetta TDI, '04 Golf TDI, '03 Legacy, '01 Jetta 1.8T, '97 Acura EL

Offline Drivesideways

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • *****
  • Location: 53.5N, 113.5W
  • Posts: 2371
  • Carma: +0/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2004, 05:10:55 pm »
I didn't pass judgement on the Jetta styling up 'till now, just the amount of rear legroom.  But since you mention it, IMO there are better looking wagons out there.  I know, I know...I drive a boxy VW hatchback and maybe some wouldn't see the two as being much different, but to me they are.

"Dislike" is probably not the right word for my opinion on the Passat.  I know the Passat is very well regarded, and all-in-all I'm content with my VW ownership experience, despite a couple of bumps.  The thing is if this car was for me and I was to consider a mid-size car from VW/Audi, I like the A4 better.  I'm fighting my natural inclination to be in the driver's seat for this process and she hasn't mentioned it as a contender.  But it's a worthy suggestion and I'll throw it against the wall to see if it sticks.

Offline sirAQUAMAN64

  • Board Moderator
  • *****
  • Location: Oshawa/Havelock, ON
  • Posts: 13372
  • Carma: +1/-34
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Shopping time!!
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2004, 05:27:39 pm »

DSW, this outta be interesting shopping and make for great reading!

Magnum is mega maucho. I don't know how much load height it has before the combo of the low sloping roof, small windows, and high-ish floor would restrict vision and cargo holding abilities. Personally, I like the 300 styling much more than the Magnum's front end. The European 300C Estate looks pretty darned great.

I don't think the 6 wagon is selling as well as they thought it would. Meanwhile, the 6 Sport hatch perhaps is performing better than expected. Was kind of hoping to see more of the wagons on the road, which is a tad disappointing. Although some disagree, I find the wagon looks very cool with the GFX package. Of course, the unavailability of the 4-cylinder at a lower price point I'm sure hurts the wagon somewhat, even if that engine might be taxed with gear and passengers loaded in.  

Too bad you're looking right now. I think the upcoming Mazda5 would be an interesting compromise for you. Smaller than an MPV, but with 6+1 seating (actually, I think they're just planning 6 for North America), a very stylish and functional interior with a quality-look and feel dashboard (probably more so than in the 6), 18" alloys as standard equipment on the sporty exterior, a price around $24,500 or so, and the availability of a manual tranny. Pity it'll only be the 160hp 4-cylinder. Really crosses a few segments at a decent price, with quality, room, and a hint of sporty looks and driving dynamics.
http://www.triplezoom.com/gallery/gallery2.php?mode=album&album=/03 Events/Ind ustry/Paris/2004/Mazda 5 for some great shots, including the rather neat interior.

I need to check out the Tucson. Great equipment at the price. The slightly larger Santa Fe is what, only $1,500 more tho? I'll have to get feel for both together.

Huge fan of the X-Trail here. It's a no BS honest-to-goodness compact SUV to me. Ditto the Subie Forester. Great on road, manageable size, nice height to the vehicle, AWD, reasonable price, some nice features like the oversized sunroofs, well constructed, and the look of the X's interior is quite pleasant (the Forester not so much, but the XT's 210hp engine sure makes it one heck of a ride!)  

Unless it's a basic Subaru, they're getting pricey! Personally, I think the Impreza is a very small car. And that dash design reeks of 80's brittle Japanese plastic. I would hope redesigned Impreza coming whenever will follow closely on the heels of the interior improvements of the new Legacy. In base guise, they're good deals. But with some options, they start looking like questionable value. Add in that turbo at the high end of the range to the Forester or the $43K Legacy, and suddenly they look worthy again tho. Would love to take one out...

Everyone's talking about how the Quest's styling went too far. I don't think the exterior went too far at all, and after selling them the big sticking point was the interior. People tended to really rave about the exterior. But the interior's centre guages placed far away in an orange digital display put off a few folks. And those that perhaps could get used to that, certainly were not fond of the odd angle of the buttons in the 'centre pod'. They ARE odd to use. Inserting a CD into the slot shouldn't be a 'third time's a charm' affair that makes me feel incompetent. I think this design element of the Quest is unfortunate, because other funky aspects of it were well received by prospective customers. Nissan should redesign parts of the dashboard, and they'd sell boatloads more of these things!  

Malibu Maxx is interesting. The exterior has grown on me - even those bulging headlamps stacked overtop the chrome bowtie extension. Like the rear and 3/4 views. It's different. My big hesitation is that interior, with the monotone expanses of uninspiring plastic. Even that 'Malibu' branded in the dashboard makes me roll my eyes. For a lot of people, it would work just fine tho. And fuel economy with that V6 is just incredible.  

I wouldn't recommend a Mitsubishi. That company is in some serious financial difficulty. In Canada they don't have many cars on the road, nor many to support dealer service departments, and sales are down near -30% this year. It's not a healthy scenario. What good is an industry-leading warranty if the company isn't around?

I think that with the Civic Hybrid available in a manual transmission, it would be neat to see the Prius available with one as well. It's quite a capable package, especially with the sizable interior, hatch, and fold-flat seats.

And A3 should be out in March-April :-)

Gunna think about what else is out there. But not now. Now I'm gettin' the heck out of work. Later!..
AQUAMAN64 also posts on BDFD.com!