Topic: 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee

[mark]

Any advice, especially from actual owners is appreciated.  My father in law is considering purchasing a new 2004 Grand Cherokee.  He is tempted by the deep discounts currently available.  He says he is looking for an SUV for better towing capacity than his car, and more ground clearance for the cottage (steep driveway, not paved) & elevated seating position.  He knows fuel consumption will be poor, but doesn't drive a whole lot anyway, so its not the biggest issue.  
Any advice on the V6 (4.0 litre, I think) vs. the 4.7 L V8?  From what I remember, that 4.0L V6 is a pretty old design.  
I'm most worried about quality.  I have an admitedly biased  view of almost all Chrysler products, and this is a vehicle that I really don't know a lot about.  Are there any major concerns to watch out for?  He will likely buy without financing, and will expect to keep it for 5 years or more.  Anything seems better than the 1996 LHS he is currently enduring.
EAX - any insights on good pricing?
Thanks a lot guys & gals!

[mrthompson]

Here's a start...
The 4.7L is a more refined engine compared to the 4.0L.  Though the 4.0L is a very durable engine.  It is an inline 6 cylinder engine, not a V6.

How much towing capacity does your father in law need?

[ovr50]

MrT is correct - the big issue for him may be towing capacity. Given that he doesn't worry much over fuel economy and needs to tow, I think the 4.7L is the way to go - I wouldn't even consider the 4.0L. My last GC was in 1993/4 so I can't comment on the current ones, other than I believe they are far more reliable and problem-free than the first ones on the mid-90s. He might get a really good deal on an '04 right now for sure.

[mrthompson]

Most models equipped with the V8 have Permanent Full-time 4wd, i.e. no 2WD mode.  Whereas most models (if not all) with the I6 have part-time 4wd (SelecTrac).  Selectrac (which I have on my Cherokee) has 2WD, 4WD Part-Time, 4WD Full-time, Neutral and 4WD Low modes.  Part-time is for off pavement only, but Full-time allows for enough slippage to be used on pavement.  It is very handy for winter when road conditions vary.

IIRC, the newer V8 Grand Cherokees have had some tranny problems.  Most of what is said in this used vehicle review should apply to the 2004 GC (WJ)... http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jc/99-02grandcherokee.htm

[mark]

Thanks guys, that is helpful.  MrT, now that you mention it, I do remember that the 4.0 L six is an inline, and presumably durable if not all that modern & refined.
I hear good stuff about the 4.7L V8 from my reading today.  I will check into the tranny problems.  I wonder if there has been any fix identified?
His normally towing is really just a medium sized 4x10 trailer.  He will routinely (2-3 times a year) haul wood from the cottage to home with the trailer full.  I don't know what the load would weigh - maybe 1500 lbs, plus the weight of the trailer ~ 400-500 lbs? Maybe less, maybe more.  
I will go on a couple of test drives with him this week to check them out.
If you got more, post away.  Thanks guys!

[mrthompson]

If he doesn't have to tow much more than 2000 lbs., your father may want to look at the Liberty as well.  It has a 3.7L V6 that is 3/4 of the 4.7L V8.  IIRC, it is rated to tow 5000 lbs. max.

Have a look at www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums
in the Grand Cherokee forum.  You might find some valuable info.  

[saint_satan]

Both are good engines BUT go with 4.7 - 4.0 is great for the small Cherokee/TJ but is overwhelmed by GC's extra weight.  I would also go Selectrac over quadradrive.  Selectrac is old tech but more reliable than Quadra-Drive if you plan to keep it more than 6-7 years.  Selectrac is standard on base "Laredo" models.  Jeep offers a standard 7yr./115km which might take the sting out of transmission issues.  I'd bet that a lot of tranny issues are due to neglect and some trannies are more sensitive than others.  

Take good look at outgoing Nissan Pathfinder Chilkoot - I think it represents a better value (this from a Jeep Cherokee owner) and comes standard with limited slip differetial, 5000 lbs. tow package, sunroof a 3.5 V6 with 235HP all for around $30K (see newspaper).  Not to mention a better rep than GC.  This is where I'd go with my SUV money right now.

[inco]

Mark either the GC or Nissan would be ideal deals. Both are at the end of their iterations and as a result dealers will be very happy to see you.

My choice would be the Nissan from having driven it, but my B/L has had probbies with his and is not a fan.

On the other hand a friend has the GC with the 4.7 and loves it - and he had a 00 GC before that.  

The ride and engine are much better - 4.0 versus the 4.7 so he is a very happy camper with the new one.

[mark]

The outgoing Pathfinder model is the option that I am "pushing" also, although I have to be careful to let him make up his own mind.  I don't want to be responsible for $35,000 of regret. (heck, I married his daughter, so there's a debt I can never make up to him).

In the event that he sticks with a GC, I will advise the older tech Selectrac.  He is leaning that way too; doesn't want the 4WD going all the time - its not a small Audi with negligible effect on fuel consumption.

I actually am not crazy about the thought of him buying an SUV, but sadly I'm not yet senior enough in the universal org chart to make decisions for everybody (not yet).

I'm going out to look with him tonight, so I'll let you know what happens.

[mrthompson]

Before he makes the final decision, suggest that he test drive the many other vehicles in the class.  Good luck.

[ovr50]

From a purely style POV, I think the GC is heads above the Pathy, but that's me. Both are going to be "old" models immediately which is not a problem if he's keeping it longer term. I think it's a toss-up. Come down to personal preference.

[mark]

Will dealer service people be up front about the possible transmission issues?  I wonder if they have a fix for that.

I agree that the GC is better looking than the Pathy.  That counts for something don't it?  

I will try to get him to drive a bunch of others, just so he has a good sense of their differences.

[saint_satan]

Agreement with posts above - I like the styling of the GC too.  Reliability goes to Pathfinder.  

Gonna have to drive both.  Pathfinder is much more car-like than a GC. Pathfinder also recommends "premium" fuel.

I think the Selectrac in the GC is a bit different from the Cherokee - I'm not sure 2wd is an option on that transfercase (4FT, 4PT, N , 4Lo - check it out).  All the parts move on Seletrac even in 2wd, its just there is no power to the front diff until the transfer case is engaged. Quadradrive is an excellent system but there are a lot of moving parts that will cost big $$$ if they fail.  Look for limited slip diff if you can - standard on Pathfinder, a $400 option on GC. Class III towing standard on Pathy, not sure on the GC.

Again, a well maintained tranny goes a long way to preventing problems - that means a fluid and filter change 50K or earlier.  Surprising how many people neglect this. 7yr/115K standard on powertrain.  You can always extend the warranty for added piece of mind.

If he doesn't need tons of space, I'd go Liberty as well.  You can get Seletrac and Class III towing package with it too.  The small package appeals to me but  maybe not so much for F in L.

[mrthompson]

SelecTrac is the NP242 transfer case.  I'm almost positive that it is the same for XJ's, ZJ's and WJ's.  (ZJ's are 1st generation GC's, WJ's are previous gen, WK's are 2005+)

[saint_satan]

You could be right - maybe I'm thinking about the Quadradrive.  I remember getting into a GC once and looking at the transfer case selector and being taken aback that there was no 2wd position.

[mrthompson]

Most GC's tend to be Quadradrive or QuadraTrac (?)...both are full-time four wheel drive systems with no provision for 2wd.

[mark]

MrT
I believe the system on the V8 GC Laredo he bought (yikes) last night was called Select TracII.  It is full time 4 Wheel Drive - no 2WD available with the V8 on the GC.  

Well there you have it - he went and bought it.  I went with him (and mom-in-law) to look and test drive.  Little did I know, although I should have expected it, I was going to stay the next few hours through the purchase process.

We drove the 4.0L I6, and it was adequate.  Not overwhelming by any means, but it was OK for speeds that a 67 year old man should perhaps keep himself to.  I agreed that we should also drive the V8, and it is significantly more powerful, and truthfully, not that much worse on gas, although it requires 89 octane min, and likely recommends 91, vs reg 87 octane for the I6.  I wasn't crazy about the lightly sprung throttle - it was difficult to engage smoothly, so I was often zooming away, when I was just trying to get going.  What I did like was the sound of that engine!  Wow, I had read that it had a nice howl to it, and in the flesh, it sounded much cooler than anything I'd expected from an SUV.  
So dad-in-law was hooked.  I asked him repeatedly if he wanted to go look at anything else.  NO.  OK, so I looked at mom, and said "I guess you're buying a car tonight."
We met up with the salesman again, and they had already talked some numbers on the weekend.  Since then, apparently a new incentive had begun (just yesterday) that knocked 15% off of list price (Chrysler incentive), plus another 10% off of original list, not the reduced price, which was a dealer specific incentive.  Truth be told, it might have been common across other dealers, but they had what he wanted here anyway.  
He bought a 2004 GC Laredo 4x4, V8, Columbia Edition.  I don't know everything that is in the Columbia package, but it includes 17" alloys (look nice), upgraded cloth seats, infinity speakers, tow package - hitch, wiring, extra cooling.  Maybe a few more items that I can't remember.
The sales guy was OK, not stellar, not horrible.  He did many of the expected things, and the process took longer than it needed to, but they eventually agreed.  The main holdup was the value of the trade in.  A 1996 Chrysler LHS, with 128,000kms.  Anybody want to guess the value?
He will pick it up on Friday.  I hope he will like it beyond the honeymoon phase.  
Oh yeah, can anyone tell me what the gas tax should be on this vehicle?  $400 or $800? or something else?
Thanks for listening.

[ovr50]

Sounds like a nice GC and he obviously got what HE wanted. Good for him. I would have taken the V8 over the 6 also - as you said before, he doesn't drive that many klicks that big gas bills will be a problem. Trust the tires are good for winter driving or he will get some snows? Sounds real sharp - any chance of getting a pix for posting after he gets it? BTW, I'm not 67 but I am much older than my son, and I would hate for him to be deciding what speeds I should be driving. Age 67 is not that old these days, although some of the younger ppl tend to forget that.

[Mdxtasy]

Nice wheels.  How about some pictures?  Glad the FIL likes the new ride.  As for the LHS....probably was willing to give about $3500 for it?  

Gas tax?  

[mark]

I don't think he will get winter tires - at least not this year.  I'll work on him.
Pix will not be forthcoming - sorry.  Its a silver metallic Grand Cherokee, you've seen them around I'll bet.
Ovr50 - I didn't mean to suggest that I should decide how fast he drives, or what he should drive.  As to the speed comment, I was thinking more about my mother-in-law, who would be much happier if all cars were speed governed to 60 km/h and ran on slots, with little driver intervention.  She's a concerned passenger shall we say.
As far as me pushing my ideas on what to buy - I only offered my perspective, and was not pushy at all.  I simply urged him to look at alterntives.  His money though, and his choice.  He did want my opinion, so I went along, and basically tried to support the process, and assist in getting a fair deal, not to take over control.  It's a nice vehicle, and I think a relatively good deal too.  

LHS black book range for that vintage was 3500 - 5500.  He got 4800 - eventually.

Don't you boys have a gas tax in Alta?