Transmission noise?

[garyf]

Hi All,

I just purchased a 2001 Taurus SE with what I hope is a normal noise. When I place the car in "park" I sometimes hear a low pitched bearing kind of sound. It would sound something like slowly rolling a heavy steel ball across a counter top. It doesn't happen everytime, and I can sometimes avoid it by applying the parking brake before putting the car in park. If the parking brake is on, and the car is in park, the sound will sometimes disappear if the parking brake is released and the car moves slightly.
My guess: engine or transmission noise is being amplified by the car chassis when the transmission is locked in park. My previous car (93 Villager) would also occasionally make this same sound.
Any ideas? I'm hoping this is just typical for some front wheel drive cars.

Thanks!

[barrie1]

Without hearing the noise I suspect its the tranny pump when taken out of gear and changing speed as it not required at that time. When was the last time this tranny was serviced? A Fluid and filter change is probably in order if it has never been done. What is the current milage on the car?

[garyf]

Thanks Barrie1,
The car has 64,000km on it. No tranny service has been done yet, I've actually scheduled an appointment at a Ford dealer to get it done. Do you think that may help? You're right, its perfectly quiet in any gear except park.

[johngenx]

Yeah, the front pump can often be heard "slowing" when put into park if it's on it's way out.  If it "squeals" when moved into gear, that is often a torque converter going south.

Ford's four speed boxes are not known for their longevity, and lack of routine service kills them quick.

[barrie1]

That dosen't seem like a lot of milage on that tranny but John's right about Ford having trouble with their tranny's, it has been an ongoing problem for a few years now. The Fluid service may help quiet it down some and prolong the life of the unit.

[garyf]

Thanks guys,

Assuming the worst case and the pump is faulty, is it a replaceable component, or am I looking at a new transmission?

[johngenx]

They'll have to pull the tranny to get to the pump, and on FWD vehicles, that is a MAJOR PITA.  Big labour bill just for that.  If the clutch packs are fine, I'd think twice about the extra expense for a rebuild at that low mileage.

With those Ford automatics, I'd service the transmission at no more than 40-45K intervals.  Even small amounts of filings and dirt can gum up the valve bodies and cause decay in the clutch packs as well as wrecking the suspect-quality bearings in things like the pump and torque converter.

Does anyone know if the tranny is the same or similar to the Windstar unit?  They have many problems, but I can't recall any specifics off-hand.  My poor neighbours have a Windstar with a breaking tranny, and the other day their BMW with ZF unit gave up the ghost. (the early E46 ZF five speeds are not great)

[articsteve]

Those trannys are real junk and Ford knows it.  Consequently, I do believe there is a secret warranty on it.  At 63,000 km I think you might qualify.

I wouldn't bother changing the fluid until you have it out with Ford.  You need to find a dealer that wants the work. Customer Service is only a call centre not part of Ford.  Useless.

You need to go the Phil Edmonston site and find out about it.  APA might have some info too.  But Phils site is the best.

OFF lease vehicle?  Avis, Hertz unit?

[saint_satan]

2001:

What was the base powertrain warranty?  If its 5 yr/100K you might be covered under factory powertrain.  I can't remember when this became standard...

[garyf]

I bought this car from a ford dealer about 3 weeks ago. I'm bringing it back to the same dealer tomorrow for the tranny service and I'm going to also have them look into the noise. Powertrain warranty for 2001 was only 3 yr/60K. From searching the net I've found a couple of TSB numbers (17358 and 15370) for this noise and I'm going to try and get my hands on a copy before going to the dealer.
Thanks a million for all of your help on this!

[articsteve]

Gary;

DO NOT GET THE TRANNY SERVICED!

DO NOT HAVE THEM "LOOK INTO" THE NOISE!

Just tell them they sold you a car with a blown tranny and if they don't replace it with a new one you are going to charge them with fraud.

Don't be asking.  Be demanding.. These are car dealership people.  They only listen to the loudest people.

1. The dealer is completely responsible for the repair if you are under 30 days.  It's part of some consumer/registered dealer legislation.

Just last week, the mechanics at my's son Japanese car dealership sent him down to a tranny shop in town because nobody could figure what the heck was the noise coming from a Taurus trade.

It was returned by the new owner.  Son's dealership ended up paying the tranny shop for a reman replacement.  They lost big on that sale.

2. Ford extended that warranty on those transmissions.

Do not get the runaround. Tell them that there is a secret warranty and you know about it and that since the car is under 30 days they must warranty it. It is not your problem.  They will replace the tranny.

[maritime_storm]

Have it serviced, that noise is common on those transaxles, no it's most likely not going south{it's not showing any other shift quality issues}. Yes it's the same unit in the Windstar. Ford should have replaced this unit with the new 4spd years ago. One tidbit of advice for you though, if you get a Taurus stuck in snow, have it towed, DO NOT try to rock it out, you WILL fry the reverse band if you do.

[brian]

I heard years back it was better to just alternate between Drive and Neutral, letting the car roll back instead of actually putting it in reverse?

[garyf]

Hi guys,

I've attached a copy of the TSB summaries I was talking about. Haven't found a full copy yet. 17358 and 15370 seem to describe the condition.

TSB NHTSA ODI - Technical Service Bulletins.htm (11.7 k)

[garyf]

attachment didn't work, it says:

Make : FORD Model : TAURUS Year : 2001  
Manufacturer : FORD MOTOR COMPANY    
Service Bulletin Num : 17358 Date of Bulletin: NOV 01, 2003  
NHTSA Item Number: 10008183    
Component: POWER TRAIN  
Summary:  
GROAN/BUZZ/VIBRATION WHEN THE GEAR SELECTOR IS IN PARK WITH THE VEHICLE PARKED ON AN INCLINE. *TT  

[barrie1]

I would approach the selling dealer with this information and state the problem to him/her in a reasonable fashion and ask what they are willing to do with the problem. If they offer no recourse for you then I would consider legal action next as replacing this tranny will run in the area of $2500. to $3000. It is a well know problem in the trade with Fords trannies in the last few years and they should do something about it for free.

[articsteve]

Gary; Do not get the tranny serviced.  You got metal on metal and new fluid won't to a sh*ts worth of good.  Don't touch it or selling dealer and Ford will blame you for screwing it up further and using something like that as an excuse to weasel out.

It's all about the money.  The dealer will be agreeable if Ford supplies a new or reman tranny.  If Ford drags it's feet then the dealer will be on the hook and they will dick you around.

I still think your covered by a 30 day unconditional warranty from the dealer.

So what is the situation now?

[johngenx]

Too bad the TSB does not give the solution to the problem.

I didn't realize that you bought the car that short a time ago.  If you bought it from a dealer, return to them and ask them to rectify the problem and explain that you understand that Ford has a TSB on these trannies.  You wish that Ford will pay the tab, parts and labour.

If the dealer balks, then ask for the number for their Ford Canada service rep (or whatever Ford calls them) and speak to Ford directly.

If you bought the car privately, you may have more problems.  Most makers reserve goodwill repairs for original owners or dealer-bought cars.  But, that does not mean you should not try and have the problem fixed on Ford's dime.

There are implied warranties of use when you buy a used car from a dealer, but they can be tough to get action on.  Also, you may have bought the car "as is."  That is not "all encompassing" but it does tilt things in their favour.

Did you have a PPI done on the car?  If so (and please tell me you did...) then you might wish to speak to the original mechanic and ask why the problem was not spotted then.

Don't get all PO'd at the dealer, or they will do nothing for you, ever.  Make friends with the service manager and explain that you feel that the car should be repaired at Ford's expense.  Don't ask the dealer to pay until Ford says no.  Make him your ally "against Ford."

Keep us posted

[Sterling]

AS has posted some really bad advice. Demanding a new transmission on a used car out of warranty because it makes a slight noise while in park will probably just get you kicked off the lot. The fact that he "thinks" you may have a 30 day warranty isn't worth putting your faith into. I know for a fact there is no such warranty in Alberta. Check for yourself before making your situation worse.

The 60/100 powertrain warranty started on the tail end of 2001 models. There is a chance that your car may have that warranty. With your VIN, the dealership can pull up a DAWIS report to verify.  Of course, whether your noise is warrantable is another story. The Used Car Sales Manager and the Service Manager at the dealership you bought it from are who you need to talk to.

[articsteve]

OK, re-read the thread and I assumed you bought it at a Ford dealer.  Is that the case or was this a private sale?

In any event, Ford will repair this for you.  There is a secret warranty on this tranny.  They are not going to jump at it, but you need to force the issue.  Calling Ford customer service is essentially the last step before you take the matter to small claims court.  Ford does not operate their own call centre.  It is said to be the worst in the business for this.  GM said to be the best.

In Ontario every brand name dealership that sells a used car has at least a 30 day unconditional warranty on all parts and labour.  If you bought it from Ford Dealer then you will get it replaced either by the Dealership or Ford or a combo of both.

The tranny is screwed. Trannys that grind are dying. Sterlings advise is to suck it up.  In Ontario your looking at 4 grand, tax in, and that will get you a reman from Mr. T with a 2 year/24 month warranty.  Wippie.

GARY, where did you get the Taurus?