Topic: 97 Pontiac Grand Prix

[mcp]

I bought the car back in 2000.  At the time it had 97,000kms on it.  Now it has 226,000km.

I recently had a huge repair bill; front rotors, front wheel bearings, rear struts, and i added a set of new Goodyear Eagle GT HR tires for the hell of it.

Generally the car has been decent, i never really had any major repairs except tie-rods and control-arms which were the result of a winter accident.

Of course, this week, when the hot weather hit us, my A/C died.  I took it to two different shops and was quoted $1000, and $680 respectively.  Apparently my Condensor has holes in it among other things.

So my question is, is it time to say good bye to my GP?

[barrie1]

Thats a decision only you and your Pocket can make, the car industry runs on people becoming Bored with their vehicle after 3 years so you are around that mark in time as well. Ask yourself if you really need a New Car or is it just the "want" time. You still have a very nice Car. It is cheaper to fix the car you have and keep driving it.    

[peonu]

I had a 97 GP and got rid of it with the mileage u bought yours at..maybe its my old one ! On the other hand I got 300k out of a 2.8 with no engine or AC problems.....i'd probably keep it,
that 3.8 should last a while longer....3.1 arent too bad either...

[hardywang]

Check www.oqcgp.com, this is Ontario Quebec Grand Prix Club. You may ask for help from forum there. Those guys know GP well.

[Mdxtasy]

Welcome Hardy....I like your handle (no pun intended)....hardy har har.  

[safristi]

Awww Md your just an Ol' SOFTIE..........."Kiss me Hardy!!!"...

(Message edited by safristi on June 11, 2004)

[Mdxtasy]

No....it's just not as durable.

[mcp]

When i said i've had few problems in the past, i may have been deluding myself.

After thinking about it, i decided to make a list of repairs i've made during the time i've owned this vehicle.  What i am wondering is, if this should be considered excessive or not and what you guys would advise in general.

As mentioned before, i just replaced:

front rotors
front wheel bearings
rear struts
new tires all around

During the previous 4.5 years (I was mistaken, i bought the car in 99) i've replaced:

Driver-side front caliper
A/C condensor (which needs to replaced again)
A/C compressor
rear rotors
heater motor (twice)
Passenger side, fog lamp (the whole assembly)
fan switch (twice)
front headlight assembly (both sides)
a pair of tires
control arms, tie rods, and bushings

I not including regular maint stuff like break pads, spark plugs, etc.

My paint job is also hurting.  Numerous paint chips, and scratches, the clear coat is flaking off, and the paint itself is coming off in chips around the rear wheel wells on both sides.  Of course rust is forming, and i was quoted $2500 to repaint the beast.

To top everything off, i have a slight oil, and transmission fluid leak.

After all that, i am starting to lean towards keeping the car since it is still running strong and is paid for.

So there it is.  Any input would be appreciated.

[peonu]

Perhaps it's time to find another car..

[inco]

MCP there are support groups out there for victims of abuse! Find 'em.

Either that or invest in a new car and learn that not all cars are built the same - depending on the car you choose, but beating the odds will be your reward if you hang out here long enough.

[dash]

MCP, except for the A/C & heater motor-normal GM problem, with over 200k, I'd say your car has been pretty good to you.  
I think A/C's are one of the least reliable systems on ANY mfg. cars.
The experts say that the cheapest car to run is a used one. Your car is now 7 yrs old with 200k+, no A/C, sorry to say but you will not get much for it, so, personally I would run it longer, until it's a safety issue or a major repair exceeds the value of the car, IMHO.

[articsteve]

Don't fix the air. Hope for a cool summer.  Typical GM crap box with respect to the head light assemblies, heater and fan motors and of course the AC.  Think about using this car for winter only and get something used, but nice for summer although that ends up costing a premium.

Other than that, drive it into the ground and put only enough money into it to keep it safe.  Remove all insurance coverages except manatory stuff.

[barrie1]

Artic Steve I wonder how many GM's you have owned as You seem to have enough vehicles at the moment. I suppose all of them have been perfect and you never ever have any trouble with them.  

[saint_satan]

P.T. Barnum:

"Drive the car until repair bills are higher than the value of the car".

I generally agree with this except if the car has left you stranded -then I have no patience.  $680 is a cheap bill.  I did routine maintance (tranny oil, front and rear differential oil change, transfer case oil change, engine oil change) and it cost me over $400...

[articsteve]

I've owned new 76 Vette.  No problems in 2 years.  New 79 Z28 for 1 1/2 years with no problems.  Took over 77 Olds 98 Regency from estate and drove that till 93.  AC died, but zero powertrain problems and no electrical issues.  Great car actually (floating couch).

Bought wife a 84 Buick Regal for winter used and it went through a ton of stuff but easy to fix.  Nylon timing chain gear stripped and that is the time I started to see how GM was heading downhill fast.

About same time Roger Smith took over GM and started to destroy it from sheer American corporate greed as illustrated in Michael Moore's "Roger and Me".

Stopped buying GM other than a well used 85 Chev Silverado Suburban 4x4 3/4 ton diesel.  Kept that for 8 years but what a piece of junk that was mechanically and bodywise.

Went BMW in 1980 and never looked at domestic seriously again.  Saw inlaws and friends buy front drive Caddys and Vettes and Cameros and they were all absolute junk in mid 80s to mid 90s.

I've had Volvo, Golfs, 1 Saab (LOL) numerous Bimmers, Porsche, etc., and all have had issues, but difference is these cars went long distances and in style, in comfort, as well as they drove well.  Not floating pieces of non engineering junk with no resale.

Neighbour at my cottage is a Midas mechanic in Kitchener and all he does is brakes and he keeps remarking how lousy GM brakes systems are getting.  Mind you he drinks alot. LOL!

[Roadrunner]

You're entitled to your opinion.

[Keith_moon]

Roadrunner,

Do you think that American vehicles are up to par when compared with imports...in all honesty?

[Roadrunner]

When it comes to comparisons of such Keith, I can't make a fair choice as my knowledge of foreign cars is sadly limited. As you may have noticed I don't participate in conversations concerning foreign cars.

Aside from a 72'Toyota sedan I had for two years (bought new) I've always bought domestic vehicles.
All I can say is, I'm astounded at the amount of sorry tales of bad experiences people have had with domestics when I have had next to none.  

Since the days of the muscle cars I have steered clear of high performance cars, as I never had the time or enough money to get a rod (of my own)ON THE TRACK where it belonged and run the sucker till the tank ran dry.

My hot-rodding was limited to wheelin' (other guys) 1950's Chev's and Ford's around a half-mile oval dirt track on weekends.

Times and vehicles (and outrageous prices) have made changes over the years but I was always working too much to pay attention. Besides, I don't finance vehicles. If I can't pay cash, I don't buy.

[johngenx]

Your 1979 Camaro went a WHOPPING one and a half years with no problems?  Wow, that's durned impressive.  I'm not sure why GM gained a reputation for poor quality with cars lasting 18 months and maybe even longer.

I too owned a 1979 Camaro.  It wasn't such a bad car for the time.  The 350ci engine was okay and the TH350 trans was strong.  The AC blew ice cold, but wasn't reliable.  The body work was AWFUL.  The panel gaps were nothing short of atrocious and the interior materials were garbage.  The leaf spring solid axle suspension was a joke and the factory shocks/bushings/front-end were poor.  The Rochester carb was okay in that it worked, but not as well as expected.

In 1985 I tore the whole car apart and rebuilt it.  Straightened the body as best I could and repainted it.  Swapped an LT-1 roller motor and rebuilt the TH350 with the good bits.  Herb Adams supplied a bunch of suspension parts and the car handled the best a solid axle car could.  Holly, Edelbrock, Hookers, FlowMasters, etc.  Tied the subframes and did some welding to make it solid.

Once GM's "prints" were off the car, it was a damned fine automobile.  Fast, tight, straight, and a good handler.  It still suffered from GM's overall poor construction (Fischer BRAGGED about those bodies?) and the interior was always poor thanks to a dash I kept.  But the AC was chucked out and the tepid disc/drum combo was gone replaced by 1LE brakes, so it finally could get itself stopped faster than train with a mile long line of cars.

By 1985 the doors drooped and that had to be fixed.  Getting the hood to fit properly (not since new) took many many hours of effort, and was still an eyesore.

OIf course, the old stock driveline was okay, but not great.  The two bolt 350 made enough power to beat a Civic, but barely.  I chucked the engine entirely as nothing was worth saving.  Even when making 400hp, the LT-1 didn't burn much more gas than the outgoing 150-ish HP 350.

[ovr50]

John- you're right about those late 70s 350 Chev engines (well all US V8s got caught up in the poor running/no power period). I had a '77 Camaro (first year they brought it back) with a stick and the 350. Very loosely assembled and the 350 had about enough power to get out of it's own way but no more. IIRC, it had 170 HP? It did sound nice tho. Kept it about 3 months and traded it in on a '77 Vette which was marginly better. I lived in Edmonton then and bought the Camaro at the Chev dealer on Whyte Ave and about 108St (forget name) and traded for the Vette at Kosowan Chev out in Devon.